University of Michigan was one of the organizations That made a proposal for a national supercomputing center. That Proposal was made just as I arrived at the University of Michigan at the beginning of 1985. The Michigan proposal had as a, as its primary hardware artifact a machine that was built in Japan. And I explained to my colleagues, my new colleagues, the University of Michigan having just arrived, that it was highly unlikely that the proposal would be funded because I didn't think, especially in that period that a Japanese machine would, would make it past the review process ion he National Science Foundation. A short while later, I was visiting the National Science Foundation and I had gotten to know, not well, but had gotten to know Eric Locke, who was then director of the National Science Foundation. And Eric and I had a conversation about Michigan's proposal. And it was clear to me from my conversation with Eric that there was no prospect that the Michigan proposal would be funded. I said to Eric, I said, well, it occurs to me that what might be even better for the University of Michigan than having a supercomputing center, is to run the network that connects all of the supercomputing centers together. A while later, there was a proposal request for proposals on that network, which later became known as the National Science Foundation Network. Yeah, that came I have become the chairman of the board at Merritt which is Michigan state wide network. Merritt had, over the years, in parallel with the packet switching, protocol developments that had been involved in the Arpanet, had developed its own packet switching network and, so we knew that the NSF had in mind, a project that would last about five years and would in total, require the expenditure of $15,000,000. As we went through thinking about how we'd create this proposal, we realized very rapidly that $15,000,000 would only fund a 56 kilo bit network which, it was very clear, if it were even put in place, would rapidly become overwhelmed by the traffic. And so we immediately started thinking, well, how could we expand the envelope for such a proposal? So I got in touch with Jamie and said, you know we have this NSF Med opportunity and we're gonna try to bring in this [inaudible] into this, would the state be interested? And Jamie said yes, get back to me when you sort of fit the pieces together. Then we went to the IBM corporation. Because even though IBM, very much like Merritt didn't have a lot of credentials in Internet protocol work, they are a big corporation with lots of cabibility in building uh-huh, communications equipment. I had an old friend who worked for IBM research by the name of Al Lise. Who's in charge of all of IBM researches computing facilities, and I've called Al. And I said Al, this is a great opportunity, but IBM is going to is, is not going to be successful here. And I need your help. And so l sort of rallied some folks from IBM research, where there actually was work going on in TCIP Protocols. And so forth and we had another meeting. I managed to drag Hans Verner out to another meeting with IBM and, and Hans Verner admitted, at the end of that meeting there are people in IBM that know something about this and yes, they could be partners. So, we got tentatively an agreement from IBM that they would contribute the hardware and the software to create the routing structure for the network. But we still needed the communications facilities. And at that time, the CFO at IBM was a gentleman. I think I remember the name correctly by, his last name was Crow. And, so through IBM, we went to him and he had contacts with a former IBM employee who is now the, network, the chief technical officer, and essentially the chief network operations officer for MCI. His name was Dick [inaudible]. And so IBM approache d Dick [inaudible], asked him if MCI would be interested in providing the communications facilities for this network. Well, as you may recall at that time, MCI was this fledgling organization. Some people would describe it really as, as a law office, trying to create an environment where they can actually offer telecommunication services up against AT&T's lobbying efforts. They, they have just been successful in that they were establishing facilities across the United States and, and Dick [inaudible] saw this as an opportunity to sort of move MCI into the big time. To be part of this NSF net proposal. And so we wound up with an agreement, that we would file a joint proposal with Merritt as the principal organization. In partnership with IBM, who had built all the routing hardware and software and with NCI, who would provide the nationwide communications facilities. And while we were and, then we got Governor Blanchard to commit a million dollars a year from state funds, in addition. So we wound up being able to submit a proposal to the National Science Foundation I think for something like 14.7 million dollars, because we knew the sealing was fifteen. But in fact by including all this in kind activity, it was actually more like a $55,000,000 proposal and it wasn't. Designed to be 56 kilobits. It was designed to start at T1 or 1.5 megabits. With planned upgrades over the, over the period of the network, networks live. We've subsequently learned that the proposal was received with considerable skepticism by the reviewers of the National Science Foundation because Merritt did not have a strong history in TCP IP and IBM was thought was the enemy of the internet, it was then focused on its own propitiatory protocols and, and so people really wondered about our technical ability to pull this off, but the, that review was conducted without reference to the actual funding pattern. And then when the wraps got pulled off of the amount of resou rce that was being committed by the partners to this proposal, it immediately went to the top of the list at the NSF, and. And I think we always had a notion that it could be a big deal. We didn't know for sure, because from the time that we turned this network on, in 88 until about 1994, the network traffic, the number of hosts on the network, all of this grew by, at the rate of about fifteen percent a month. So this, this net. This, this network literally exploded underneath us. And we were extremely fortunate that the protocol suite, the TCP IP Protocol Suite and the fundamental notions of the network. Allowed it. To grow at that rate. And, but we had to do a lot of innovation. The border gateway protocols had to be developed to allow multiple networks to interact with one another. And we have to build increasingly more capable routing and communications facilities. Finally in. I think it was around 1990 this network was growing so fast that it was clear that these T1 circuits were not going to, were not going to enable what we needed to do. So we had to go to the next step which was DS3 or from 1-1/2 megabits to 45 megabits, which was a very large step, a 30 fold increase in capacity. And, in order to do that, we, wound up creating another, not for profit organization called Advanced Network and Services. Merritt was still the principal investigator on the grant. But it subcontracted, the development of, this new network, this 45, megabit network to Advanced Network and Services, which was headquartered in Armonk . The NSF net was the fastest internet, network to the end. It finally was the commissioned in, 1995, when the congress decided that the Federal government should not be in the business of supporting something, that by that time, in their view, should have been, become a commercial facility. I'll not ever forget sitting in a house hearing room in the capitol. And next to Mitch Kapor and some Internet some small internet company, start up CEOs who were complaining, to the congress that it was inappropriate for, the NSF net to be funded by, by the National Science Foundation when they could provide the service, as a commercial service. At the very same time they were making that complaint, they were using NSF net as, their, backup network, to carry traffic, when their much less reliable networks failed on a national scale. Mci of course turned out to be a major Internet Service Provider also using the same technology. In a classic innovator's curse moment, IBM who was at that time the leader in routing technology for, internet for internet backbones, managed to decide that they should kill all of the work they have done in developing these routers because it would threaten their proprietary network efforts. It's probably almost single handedly responsible for the fact that Cisco became the dominant router, company in the United States rather than IBM.