WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en 1 00:00:00.710 --> 00:00:01.770 >> SPEAKER: Hi. 2 00:00:01.770 --> 00:00:04.480 I'm Mary Minnow, but I'm not speaking on behalf of IMLS. 3 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:10.220 I'm also with librarylaw.com, and I'm the attorney for the Califa Group, a consortium 4 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:15.690 of California libraries who has set up our own Adobe content servers, so I'm speaking 5 00:00:15.690 --> 00:00:17.349 on that behalf. 6 00:00:17.349 --> 00:00:25.149 So, we were asked earlier what was the library museum archives key business, and my work 7 00:00:25.149 --> 00:00:30.529 is mostly with public libraries, and people need to be able to borrow books, and people 8 00:00:30.529 --> 00:00:32.230 need to be able to borrow e books. 9 00:00:32.230 --> 00:00:34.940 So, do we need libraries to make that happen? 10 00:00:34.940 --> 00:00:37.940 I mean, really think about it. 11 00:00:37.940 --> 00:00:42.899 How many of you are borrowing directly from Amazon or Oyster or Scribed? 12 00:00:42.899 --> 00:00:45.510 Yeah, it's very easy. 13 00:00:45.510 --> 00:00:47.649 It's a very seamless experience. 14 00:00:47.649 --> 00:00:56.409 So, in some respects, I would say that libraries are the worst way to borrow e books, except 15 00:00:56.409 --> 00:01:03.239 for all the others, because when we talk about our core values of what libraries represent, 16 00:01:03.239 --> 00:01:07.240 that's when things start shifting, and you might think, well, maybe libraries are the 17 00:01:07.240 --> 00:01:10.960 only place, or the worst place, but better than all the others. 18 00:01:10.960 --> 00:01:17.600 John Paltrey wrote a new book hot off the press called Biblio Tech. 19 00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:21.560 I highly recommend it. 20 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:27.579 It's why libraries matter more than ever in the age of Google, and he says if we do not 21 00:01:27.579 --> 00:01:32.860 have libraries, if we lose the notion of free access to most information, the world of the 22 00:01:32.860 --> 00:01:36.009 haves and have not's will grow further and further apart. 23 00:01:36.009 --> 00:01:41.270 So, let's take a look at the library core values and how they translate in the print 24 00:01:41.270 --> 00:01:43.299 world and the e book world. 25 00:01:43.299 --> 00:01:48.189 In the print world, you go to the library and you borrow a book, pretty easy, and I 26 00:01:48.189 --> 00:01:53.829 didn't know until I went to library school that the libraries are working with vendors, 27 00:01:53.829 --> 00:01:57.759 sometimes directly with publishers, they're getting the books on the shelves that they 28 00:01:57.759 --> 00:02:04.219 bought maybe 30 years ago, and they have a circulation system, and the libraries own 29 00:02:04.219 --> 00:02:08.119 the books, and they own the shelves. 30 00:02:08.119 --> 00:02:16.720 E book world, you could take the easy way and pay some fees and join Oyster or Scribbed, 31 00:02:16.720 --> 00:02:26.020 and you could, instead, choose to click through and go with what's available through the libraries, 32 00:02:26.020 --> 00:02:32.230 but you're paying, if you're going with the pay for play version, then you're paying a 33 00:02:32.230 --> 00:02:41.600 monthly fee, you're paying again and again for each book that isn't available. 34 00:02:41.600 --> 00:02:45.800 It's really not the best of all worlds, but the worst of all things, it's part of the 35 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:50.640 business model, is that they are tracking everything you read, and they're making that 36 00:02:50.640 --> 00:02:52.810 available to the publishers. 37 00:02:52.810 --> 00:02:57.180 When you click on the library, you're taking your chances, and behind the scenes, the librarians 38 00:02:57.180 --> 00:03:04.550 are, for the most part, renting, they're renting the content, they're renting the bookshelves, 39 00:03:04.550 --> 00:03:10.070 and they've got a circ system that they didn't design, and both, after a year, they choose 40 00:03:10.070 --> 00:03:15.410 to switch vendors, and both the books and the shelves can disappear, right? 41 00:03:15.410 --> 00:03:22.470 So, the core library values, which are equity of access, anyone can borrow, including people 42 00:03:22.470 --> 00:03:35.740 with print disabilities, preservation and privacy, the freedom to read, after 9/11, 43 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:40.590 just take one story, a 10 year old boy of middle eastern descent came into the library 44 00:03:40.590 --> 00:03:44.970 and wanted to borrow a book on airplanes, and his father said you better not do that, 45 00:03:44.970 --> 00:03:51.000 so privacy is so essential to our freedom to read, because if people are watching what 46 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.920 we're reading, then we watch what we read. 47 00:03:53.920 --> 00:04:00.290 So, can we build those values into a library based e book echo system? 48 00:04:00.290 --> 00:04:09.650 Equity of access, we've got the, hold up your drinking glasses, openlibrary.org, which is 49 00:04:09.650 --> 00:04:19.329 for, I didn't say Brewster, which anyone can borrow a book, and in fact, you've got, privacy 50 00:04:19.329 --> 00:04:24.090 is completely secure, because you scrub the IP addresses, you're the only ones I know 51 00:04:24.090 --> 00:04:28.169 that really do that, you've got disability access out the wazoo because you go up to 52 00:04:28.169 --> 00:04:35.919 the current books, but what the open library doesn't have is that big plethora of the current 53 00:04:35.919 --> 00:04:41.860 books for everybody else, and, so, we still have gaps, gaps, gaps in terms of being able 54 00:04:41.860 --> 00:04:47.190 to buy things, being able to own things, which is essential for having control over the privacy, 55 00:04:47.190 --> 00:04:54.259 for having control of making things available for disability access, if they're not already, 56 00:04:54.259 --> 00:04:59.319 and we certainly don't have it for the pay per play. 57 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:05.969 So, I am an attorney for Califa, which is a consortium of the California libraries, 58 00:05:05.969 --> 00:05:12.379 and we have over 75 of our members who have joined the ANKE platform, which is for e books, 59 00:05:12.379 --> 00:05:17.180 so we have our own server and loan out the books, we have a shared collection, but we're 60 00:05:17.180 --> 00:05:23.900 just starting to roll out the complexity of allowing each library to buy their own books 61 00:05:23.900 --> 00:05:30.400 with their own tax money for their own users, and that's a huge need, and the biggest need 62 00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:34.380 is to have that marketplace so that we can make the books available to them so they can 63 00:05:34.380 --> 00:05:40.229 seamlessly buy, and we don't have that, and that's something that doesn't make sense to 64 00:05:40.229 --> 00:05:47.129 create on each individual level, nor does the hosting make sense on each library's jurisdiction, 65 00:05:47.129 --> 00:05:52.349 that's something where I could see pooling our resources and making a shared hosting 66 00:05:52.349 --> 00:05:57.499 available and making a shared marketplace available, especially the negotiating with 67 00:05:57.499 --> 00:05:59.189 the publishers. 68 00:05:59.189 --> 00:06:05.810 So, that's what I see as our gaps, and John Palfrey says it's up to the libraries to shape 69 00:06:05.810 --> 00:06:09.229 rather than merely react to the forces around us. 70 00:06:09.229 --> 00:06:12.840 I'd like to turn it over to Micah. 71 00:06:12.840 --> 00:06:14.169 You've been tracking the numbers. 72 00:06:14.169 --> 00:06:17.449 What can you tell us about e books, library users and consumers? 73 00:06:17.449 --> 00:06:18.569 >>MICAH MAY: Thanks, Mary. 74 00:06:18.569 --> 00:06:24.490 So, first, I just want to say quickly, just a thank you to IMLS for inviting me to speak 75 00:06:24.490 --> 00:06:25.840 to this distinguished group. 76 00:06:25.840 --> 00:06:28.159 I'll do my best. 77 00:06:28.159 --> 00:06:33.860 I have been thinking a lot about e books, especially in the last 6 months, and so a 78 00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:35.939 couple facts to me that are interesting. 79 00:06:35.939 --> 00:06:37.710 The first is about the size of the market. 80 00:06:37.710 --> 00:06:42.289 So, I think this has really been an important dynamic in our positively evolving relationship 81 00:06:42.289 --> 00:06:47.360 with publishers in that, wow, consumer e books have largely plateaued in terms of consumer 82 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:48.599 e-book sales. 83 00:06:48.599 --> 00:06:50.330 Library e books spending is growing rapidly. 84 00:06:50.330 --> 00:06:53.550 In 2009 it was about 30 million. 85 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:59.759 In 2013, which is the most recently available, it was 111 million, so that's a compounded 86 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:01.349 annual growth rate of 35 percent. 87 00:07:01.349 --> 00:07:07.129 Now, that can't continue, but even at half that growth rate, by 2020, we're looking at 88 00:07:07.129 --> 00:07:11.969 well over a quarter billion dollars the libraries are spending on e-books out of a $1.2 billion 89 00:07:11.969 --> 00:07:15.029 total public library acquisitions budget. 90 00:07:15.029 --> 00:07:19.330 So, there's a lot of money libraries are already putting into e books, and it's growing very 91 00:07:19.330 --> 00:07:20.330 quickly. 92 00:07:20.330 --> 00:07:24.529 Second, it's worth noting that libraries generally cannot keep up with demand. 93 00:07:24.529 --> 00:07:31.559 So, even with those fast growing collection budgets, we can't maintain the same. 94 00:07:31.559 --> 00:07:37.180 We shoot for no worse than a 5 to 1 holds queue, and in E, we can't come even close 95 00:07:37.180 --> 00:07:39.029 to supporting that financially. 96 00:07:39.029 --> 00:07:45.569 Third, that, you know, circulation, it's worth noting that even with this exploding growth, 97 00:07:45.569 --> 00:07:51.659 library e book use lags really far behind commercial e book consumption as compared 98 00:07:51.659 --> 00:07:52.680 to print book consumption. 99 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:58.080 So, we all saw Amazon's news two Christmases ago when they sold more e books than print 100 00:07:58.080 --> 00:07:59.080 books. 101 00:07:59.080 --> 00:08:05.400 That's already very old news, and because there's a slightly thinner margin on e books, 102 00:08:05.400 --> 00:08:10.240 e books make up about 28 percent of trade publishing revenues, in libraries, we circulate 103 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:16.979 about 7 percent of our circulation in E books, so there's a huge gap between where consumer 104 00:08:16.979 --> 00:08:21.479 demand would appear to be based on the market and where use in libraries is. 105 00:08:21.479 --> 00:08:27.189 So, even with the rapid growth curve, there's tremendous need and opportunity for our e 106 00:08:27.189 --> 00:08:29.240 book purchasing to expand. 107 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:35.030 Next, it's worth noting that this is a very small market with one very dominant player. 108 00:08:35.030 --> 00:08:39.310 It's fairly obvious, overdrive sells to 91 percent of libraries in the United States. 109 00:08:39.310 --> 00:08:44.260 There are a couple of new ones that have already made a good go and that are I think in the 110 00:08:44.260 --> 00:08:52.810 black, but we're mostly all using the same vendor products to serve e books to our users, 111 00:08:52.810 --> 00:08:56.560 and finally, I think it's fair to say that NYPL and other libraries are not completely 112 00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:57.850 satisfied with those products. 113 00:08:57.850 --> 00:09:01.700 So, while they have served us well in many ways, they got us started in this business 114 00:09:01.700 --> 00:09:06.261 when we didn't know how to get started, they brought many publishers to the table, there's 115 00:09:06.261 --> 00:09:10.950 a lot of good that's been done by having these vendor solutions, I believe that it's time 116 00:09:10.950 --> 00:09:14.740 for us to look beyond that and think about libraries taking a broader role and really 117 00:09:14.740 --> 00:09:18.210 owning our library user experience around e books. 118 00:09:18.210 --> 00:09:20.330 So, those are some of the facts that I think are interesting. 119 00:09:20.330 --> 00:09:23.610 >>MARY MINNOW: What should libraries do to step up our game? 120 00:09:23.610 --> 00:09:28.170 >>MICAH MAY: At the most fundamental level, I think it's time for libraries to own their 121 00:09:28.170 --> 00:09:30.040 relationships with users around e books. 122 00:09:30.040 --> 00:09:35.690 I think that we've accepted a model where our service of this important format type 123 00:09:35.690 --> 00:09:40.940 is done entirely through third parties, and the result is that we don't control the interfaces 124 00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:41.940 in which they interact. 125 00:09:41.940 --> 00:09:45.240 Those are often much more commercial than the interfaces we would deploy in our own 126 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:46.430 environments. 127 00:09:46.430 --> 00:09:50.860 It means we often don't hold the user accounts where they are putting their private information 128 00:09:50.860 --> 00:09:55.170 and where they will return for their next transaction, it means we can't control the 129 00:09:55.170 --> 00:10:00.430 privacy, we can't work on that issue ourselves, so I think we need to own those user relationships, 130 00:10:00.430 --> 00:10:04.780 and anyone who's building a business in the private sector would start there. 131 00:10:04.780 --> 00:10:06.100 That's kind of table stakes, right? 132 00:10:06.100 --> 00:10:08.540 You don't give someone else your consumer relationships. 133 00:10:08.540 --> 00:10:13.180 I think as libraries, we have the ability, the potential to have deeper relationships. 134 00:10:13.180 --> 00:10:18.120 We're more trusted, and we have many services to offer beyond e books, and we can't draw 135 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:22.400 those connections and build that relationship unless we own it on a technological level 136 00:10:22.400 --> 00:10:23.410 first. 137 00:10:23.410 --> 00:10:29.050 Second, I think we do need to reduce the cost and the ROI. 138 00:10:29.050 --> 00:10:34.050 The return on investment in our e book collection has fallen, so even as we've increased the 139 00:10:34.050 --> 00:10:37.620 budget that we spend, we get fewer circs per dollar. 140 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:42.410 That's not a sustainable environment or an environment we want to see in our fastest 141 00:10:42.410 --> 00:10:47.200 growing content area, so I think we need to work on that, and part of that is price per 142 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:48.680 se, which I'll talk more about that later. 143 00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:52.470 I think part of it is having inventory management control. 144 00:10:52.470 --> 00:10:58.300 Right now, we don't have the ability to set important controls on things like automatic 145 00:10:58.300 --> 00:11:01.740 check out and loan periods, we can't optimize holds queue. 146 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.220 So if I have 15 holds come up today, they could all become available at once or when 147 00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:07.190 I am out of town. 148 00:11:07.190 --> 00:11:10.030 There's no work being done to optimize our inventory. 149 00:11:10.030 --> 00:11:15.110 I think we could come close to doubling the real circulation we get out of our collections 150 00:11:15.110 --> 00:11:18.740 if we owned that and dealt with it as an inventory optimization problem. 151 00:11:18.740 --> 00:11:25.820 Next, I think we need a single sophisticated point of contact with publishers. 152 00:11:25.820 --> 00:11:30.800 I had the wonderful opportunity in 2012 to join Tony Marx, IMPL President, in approaching 153 00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:38.220 big 5 publishers, and most were not selling e-books to libraries at all. 154 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:44.700 Many different parties worked on trying to cajole them into the market and since then 155 00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:48.570 have maintained relationships with those publishers, and one thing that I see as a big problem 156 00:11:48.570 --> 00:11:51.040 is the lack of a central point of contact. 157 00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:54.780 That doesn't necessarily mean one person that interacts with the publishers., but between 158 00:11:54.780 --> 00:11:59.480 each publisher and the library industry, I think there needs to be an empowered and sophisticated 159 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:00.480 point of contact. 160 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.000 So this could be distributed amongst libraries. 161 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.370 It could be that I walk up the street and talk to folks at Simon and Shuster, while 162 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:10.560 Califa manages someone that is local to Californa. 163 00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:14.610 Between us, we should be having one clear conversation. 164 00:12:14.610 --> 00:12:17.820 Publishers are still fairly small businesses, even the biggest of them, they are scared 165 00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:21.870 of interacting with 9,000 different libraries or even with 50 different states. 166 00:12:21.870 --> 00:12:26.170 They need for us to come together and present them with a counterparty that they can interact 167 00:12:26.170 --> 00:12:31.720 with in a new way, and I think if we can do that, there's tremendous progress to be made 168 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:36.420 with better licensing arrangements with those publishers, they're very open to experimenting, 169 00:12:36.420 --> 00:12:43.190 but right now, we don't have that advocate and that point of contact, and frankly, incentives 170 00:12:43.190 --> 00:12:46.670 are not aligned for vendors to be that person. 171 00:12:46.670 --> 00:12:54.410 So, I guess, finally, I think we need to really explore different models for how we approach 172 00:12:54.410 --> 00:12:58.780 this, and I think to solve this problem holistically, there are many win/wins to be had, and there 173 00:12:58.780 --> 00:13:02.040 are roles for a lot of different kinds of players especially in such a fast expanding 174 00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:03.040 space. 175 00:13:03.040 --> 00:13:07.390 If we don't step up, I think we risk just being kind of a pass through provider of a 176 00:13:07.390 --> 00:13:12.010 service, and that's not what we want to be in the future, but if we can step up, I think 177 00:13:12.010 --> 00:13:15.940 we also have opportunities to explore different kinds of relationships with private companies 178 00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:21.570 who often play a very important role in this space, but it may require us thinking a little 179 00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:24.310 bit outside of the traditional vendor/customer box. 180 00:13:24.310 --> 00:13:28.970 >>MARY MINNOW: I heard you write you would negotiate with a New York publisher and we 181 00:13:28.970 --> 00:13:34.761 could negotiate with some California publishers and share that marketplace as it were so that 182 00:13:34.761 --> 00:13:38.190 I could buy from the New York publishers and you could buy from the California publishers. 183 00:13:38.190 --> 00:13:39.190 That's what you're talking about? 184 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:41.930 >>MICAH MAY: That's what I think we need. 185 00:13:41.930 --> 00:13:45.440 I think that it's time to fill this gap in our national digital platform. 186 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:47.230 I think we're ready. 187 00:13:47.230 --> 00:13:51.600 So, you know, some things about this vision, so first of all, I think the proofs of concept 188 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.940 have been done, they've been running for awhile, Califa is a great example. 189 00:13:54.940 --> 00:13:59.860 I like other examples like NC LIVE in North Carolina which was very focused on local content 190 00:13:59.860 --> 00:14:03.610 and has a great collection and then there are projects that are about to go live like 191 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:08.820 the Amigos network in Texas, Eagle project in Colorado but it's these things just screaming 192 00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:10.110 for scale. 193 00:14:10.110 --> 00:14:13.660 Once you go to the trouble of interacting with a publisher and on boarding their content, 194 00:14:13.660 --> 00:14:15.190 you want to bring that to the whole country. 195 00:14:15.190 --> 00:14:17.570 There's almost no variable cost in doing that. 196 00:14:17.570 --> 00:14:23.560 So, it needs scale, but I think these existing platforms have proven that libraries can handle 197 00:14:23.560 --> 00:14:24.610 the technology. 198 00:14:24.610 --> 00:14:26.560 We should not be intimidated by it. 199 00:14:26.560 --> 00:14:30.290 It's been done and in very small budgets, and we can easily aggregate a budget that 200 00:14:30.290 --> 00:14:31.670 is more than enough to build the technology. 201 00:14:31.670 --> 00:14:39.430 I think we need to come together around models that can really put this to work. 202 00:14:39.430 --> 00:14:41.110 So, some things about that vision. 203 00:14:41.110 --> 00:14:45.380 First of all, I think we can build this in the near term, so within a couple of years. 204 00:14:45.380 --> 00:14:48.850 Two years, I think we could potentially have this stood up and working. 205 00:14:48.850 --> 00:14:52.250 I don't think this is a five year project or ten year project. 206 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:55.500 I think it could start with e books, but I think it could very quickly expand to include 207 00:14:55.500 --> 00:15:01.810 a lot of other media types, music, audio, comic books. 208 00:15:01.810 --> 00:15:06.900 Fundamentally, the model is not format dependent. 209 00:15:06.900 --> 00:15:10.860 I think we could follow some principles that have already been laid out and have really 210 00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:11.860 resonated. 211 00:15:11.860 --> 00:15:16.870 So, one example of that is readers first, which is a small sort of library user group 212 00:15:16.870 --> 00:15:21.140 that has been pushing pretty hard in a very focused way around interoperability between 213 00:15:21.140 --> 00:15:25.030 e book distributors, and I think we could really advance those principles by sort of 214 00:15:25.030 --> 00:15:30.830 getting in the game directly and providing an alternative I think this could quickly 215 00:15:30.830 --> 00:15:31.840 become self sustaining. 216 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:37.200 So, if you think about the growth in the market that I described with, you know, already well 217 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:41.970 over a hundred million dollars being spent, and by 2020, easily a quarter of a billion 218 00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:47.010 dollars will be spent by libraries, it doesn't take very much of that in savings to sustain 219 00:15:47.010 --> 00:15:53.180 this effort, so it doesn't have to be a cost center, it doesn't have to require grant funding 220 00:15:53.180 --> 00:15:56.800 on a long term basis, all we need is a start up investment, and I think this can become 221 00:15:56.800 --> 00:15:57.800 self sustaining. 222 00:15:57.800 --> 00:16:03.290 I think it could also potentially spin off funding to support other leadership work so 223 00:16:03.290 --> 00:16:05.280 it could become a model for that. 224 00:16:05.280 --> 00:16:11.040 I think some elements need to be centralized, so, you know, I know that's a little bit of 225 00:16:11.040 --> 00:16:15.710 a dirty word in this room, but I think the idea that we empower someone to go and sign 226 00:16:15.710 --> 00:16:20.390 one license with a publisher and then anyone can fall in and use those same terms, I think 227 00:16:20.390 --> 00:16:26.640 we need to empower a few staff to do that, so there needs to be some elements to be centralized. 228 00:16:26.640 --> 00:16:31.000 At the same time, I think many elements of this work can be decentralized, and I think 229 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:36.180 it could offer some really compelling new kinds of library work to library workers of 230 00:16:36.180 --> 00:16:38.400 the future. 231 00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:42.470 There's no reason there has to be one person who interacts with every publisher. 232 00:16:42.470 --> 00:16:47.770 I think interested and capable libraries or other institutions including private companies 233 00:16:47.770 --> 00:16:53.030 from across the country could approach or other creators and owners of content like 234 00:16:53.030 --> 00:16:58.080 authors and onboard their content using standard licensing agreements to a national platform 235 00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:59.870 where any library could buy it. 236 00:16:59.870 --> 00:17:03.620 They could then get a small percentage of that sale, or in some other way be compensated 237 00:17:03.620 --> 00:17:05.169 for that work because it is work. 238 00:17:05.169 --> 00:17:07.889 And they should be made whole and know it is sustainable. 239 00:17:07.889 --> 00:17:12.720 So, it doesn't have to be that we deputize one negotiator. 240 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:17.470 We could decentralize that as long as we coordinate it and put it all in one place. 241 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:19.379 Hosting and the technology doesn't have to be centralized. 242 00:17:19.379 --> 00:17:20.699 In fact, it shouldn't be. 243 00:17:20.699 --> 00:17:25.509 We should have one common platform in the sense of running the same technology, but 244 00:17:25.509 --> 00:17:33.019 we should have many nodes so you get it from your local nodes so that there's redundancy, 245 00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:34.019 etc. 246 00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:40.120 Then, you know, I think that there are other elements in terms of curation that could be 247 00:17:40.120 --> 00:17:41.120 decentralized. 248 00:17:41.120 --> 00:17:46.630 So, you know, if acquisition staff choose a bundle of books that works well for their 249 00:17:46.630 --> 00:17:50.010 library, the system should be able to share that information with other staff and other 250 00:17:50.010 --> 00:17:55.660 libraries, and so that could feed things like recommendations to patrons, and it could also 251 00:17:55.660 --> 00:18:00.750 be creating shared carts or collections that other libraries can buy in the same way. 252 00:18:00.750 --> 00:18:04.240 So, I think there are roles for a wide range of libraries. 253 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:10.110 >>MARY MINOW: Let's say you've negotiated a license with a publisher in New York, and 254 00:18:10.110 --> 00:18:12.830 I think I can do better with that same publisher. 255 00:18:12.830 --> 00:18:14.040 I don't want to use that license. 256 00:18:14.040 --> 00:18:16.899 Can I still do that in your vision? 257 00:18:16.899 --> 00:18:18.539 >>MICAH MAY: Sure, I guess. 258 00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:22.231 I think, you know, so I've had this conversation with at least all of the big five publishers, 259 00:18:22.231 --> 00:18:27.580 and I think one thing that they want, a couple things they want. 260 00:18:27.580 --> 00:18:31.090 My belief is that they need some level of central point of contact. 261 00:18:31.090 --> 00:18:34.870 If you could go back to publisher and get a better deal, then maybe you call me before 262 00:18:34.870 --> 00:18:37.129 you approach them and we coordinate that in some way. 263 00:18:37.129 --> 00:18:39.970 I don't think there's that many people out there beating on publisher's doors trying 264 00:18:39.970 --> 00:18:43.990 to negotiate on behalf of libraries, so it should be possible to coordinate those efforts. 265 00:18:43.990 --> 00:18:47.700 I also think they need access to a broad marketplace. 266 00:18:47.700 --> 00:18:52.310 So, you know, in New York, we could not put up a Douglas County model or a Califa model 267 00:18:52.310 --> 00:18:55.909 and work with the publishers that are right down the street, because they're frankly not 268 00:18:55.909 --> 00:18:59.279 open to selling to a fragmented marketplace. 269 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:05.129 So, I think we need to come together and put up a national offering in order to entice 270 00:19:05.129 --> 00:19:07.740 all of the content into that marketplace. 271 00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:11.460 Once we've got that marketplace working, I think we can be very flexible about who we 272 00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:13.840 empower to go and improve the deals that we get. 273 00:19:13.840 --> 00:19:18.620 I just want to underscore one thing there, which is that I really believe there are deep 274 00:19:18.620 --> 00:19:20.450 and meaningful win/wins here. 275 00:19:20.450 --> 00:19:26.049 So, part of that win/win is that any improvement we can make in terms of the margin that libraries 276 00:19:26.049 --> 00:19:31.860 pay and therefore returning some credit to libraries will immediately be reinvested in 277 00:19:31.860 --> 00:19:32.860 content. 278 00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:36.580 So, that can drive further growth for publishers selling to libraries, which is one of their 279 00:19:36.580 --> 00:19:39.470 fastest growing areas in this field. 280 00:19:39.470 --> 00:19:43.370 So, they are excited, I think, about selling more to libraries, and this could help with 281 00:19:43.370 --> 00:19:44.370 that. 282 00:19:44.370 --> 00:19:49.990 I think the other thing we can do is think about our shared goals of just instilling 283 00:19:49.990 --> 00:19:55.220 a love of reading in every person and promoting books and broader discovery of a wider range 284 00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:57.490 of authors and a wider range of titles. 285 00:19:57.490 --> 00:20:02.730 So, I think having this sophisticated type of representative, so at least someone speaking 286 00:20:02.730 --> 00:20:06.750 on behalf of the library community, where at least someone has a real personal relationship 287 00:20:06.750 --> 00:20:10.539 with mentored in the publisher will start those kind of conversations that could lead 288 00:20:10.539 --> 00:20:11.690 to a lot of benefit. 289 00:20:11.690 --> 00:20:20.749 >>MARY MINOW: And, so, what would be your vision for the next steps and a call to action? 290 00:20:20.749 --> 00:20:24.860 >>MICAH MAY: Yeah, so, I think, you know, I think if we could do this, there's a lot 291 00:20:24.860 --> 00:20:25.860 we could do. 292 00:20:25.860 --> 00:20:28.669 I mean, maybe I can say before that a little bit about what I think the impact could be. 293 00:20:28.669 --> 00:20:33.309 So, users, you know, would be able to borrow books directly from their libraries, which 294 00:20:33.309 --> 00:20:37.110 I think is the key and the overarching point. 295 00:20:37.110 --> 00:20:42.010 I think we could allow new libraries to build stronger relationships with users. 296 00:20:42.010 --> 00:20:46.980 We could also save a lot of money if you just back out a small percentage of that large 297 00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:52.059 market, and by improving ROI will have a similar magnifying effect. 298 00:20:52.059 --> 00:20:56.400 With those strong relationships with the publishers, we open new frontiers and I think it potentially 299 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:00.110 fosters a collaborative paradigm and some new kinds of institutional structures with 300 00:21:00.110 --> 00:21:07.549 libraries that could create a jumping off point for other shared projects. 301 00:21:07.549 --> 00:21:12.429 In terms of a call for action, I think that what Maura said this morning we are building 302 00:21:12.429 --> 00:21:20.580 on at least a decade of experimentation and some live work, so NYPL in 2012 wrote a grant 303 00:21:20.580 --> 00:21:24.730 called Library Simplified, and through the IMLS funding this summer we are going to be 304 00:21:24.730 --> 00:21:26.929 releasing an open source e-reader. 305 00:21:26.929 --> 00:21:29.860 That is just one piece of this puzzle. 306 00:21:29.860 --> 00:21:32.309 It is the piece which most touches the users. 307 00:21:32.309 --> 00:21:34.440 Any library will be able to deploy it free. 308 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.669 We are going to try to help you if you need it to set it up, and we just submitted another 309 00:21:38.669 --> 00:21:43.380 proposal when, if funded, will commit NYPL to building a lot of this stack, a lot of 310 00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:44.799 what we need. 311 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:52.159 We won't be 100% there, maybe 70-80% there, but we have already committed to building 312 00:21:52.159 --> 00:21:57.440 what it will take to build the national digital platform. 313 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:03.570 What we need is help. 314 00:22:03.570 --> 00:22:08.269 We just had an amazing conversation at DPLA Fest about this, identified the pieces of 315 00:22:08.269 --> 00:22:11.669 this stack and who is working on this, and found some user groups. 316 00:22:11.669 --> 00:22:19.179 So I encourage anybody who is interested to work on that to dig in and find out how specifically 317 00:22:19.179 --> 00:22:22.879 you can contribute. 318 00:22:22.879 --> 00:22:27.600 You can contact me or anyone who is working on this. 319 00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:30.509 You can join and participate in the groups who are working on this. 320 00:22:30.509 --> 00:22:37.419 Readers First is a good example of this. 321 00:22:37.419 --> 00:22:59.240 I think you could 322 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:19.179 deploy finally, I think committing to using this platform if and when it's built will 323 00:23:19.179 --> 00:23:23.299 make all of us investing in it more confident in that investment, so that could be in the 324 00:23:23.299 --> 00:23:24.809 form of some kind of pledge to buy from it. 325 00:23:24.809 --> 00:23:29.340 We can talk more about that, but I think getting to the point where we know there is appetite 326 00:23:29.340 --> 00:23:33.110 to start working in this way will make those of us who have taken this small piece of the 327 00:23:33.110 --> 00:23:37.019 digital platform and trying to charge a head on it real, and that's all things libraries 328 00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:38.019 can do. 329 00:23:38.019 --> 00:23:40.869 I think if you're not in a library, you may be able to provide financial support. 330 00:23:40.869 --> 00:23:42.049 Many of you are funders. 331 00:23:42.049 --> 00:23:47.159 I think you can encourage libraries to get involved in this effort, and I think you can 332 00:23:47.159 --> 00:23:52.659 share your ideas, and we need those too. 333 00:23:52.659 --> 00:23:55.679 >> SPEAKER: Any questions? 334 00:23:55.679 --> 00:24:02.220 >> SPEAKER: I think Micah for laying out a very exciting and energizing approach that 335 00:24:02.220 --> 00:24:05.369 I think works very well for public libraries. 336 00:24:05.369 --> 00:24:10.239 I think it's important to bring into the conversation as well the experience and interest of the 337 00:24:10.239 --> 00:24:15.769 academic library community, which are complimentary, but very different. 338 00:24:15.769 --> 00:24:20.269 We've come off of a major revolution in, if you will, e journals, and we gained a lot 339 00:24:20.269 --> 00:24:25.840 of experience and knowledge, and we made a lot of mistakes, but the purpose and nature 340 00:24:25.840 --> 00:24:33.399 of e books in the academy very often focuses on course related materials, use in classes, 341 00:24:33.399 --> 00:24:45.399 increasingly on the ability to search across a database, small and independent publishers, 342 00:24:45.399 --> 00:24:52.460 and we're trying to wrestle through the larger issues of self publishing, increasingly focused 343 00:24:52.460 --> 00:25:00.019 on how we bring research data and other complimentary and supplementary materials into the e reader 344 00:25:00.019 --> 00:25:06.519 experience, and the whole, which we've talked about a lot today, is we have no strategy 345 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:12.169 for long term preservation of e books in this country, and we've got to wrestle through 346 00:25:12.169 --> 00:25:13.829 that issue in some subsistit way. 347 00:25:13.829 --> 00:25:15.809 >> SPEAKER: And we need to have ownership of some files. 348 00:25:15.809 --> 00:25:20.379 I mean, I'm not against licensing, but we need to have one copy that we own. 349 00:25:20.379 --> 00:25:22.630 >> SPEAKER: I agree with that. 350 00:25:22.630 --> 00:25:24.580 >> SPEAKER: Thank you for that excellent point. 351 00:25:24.580 --> 00:25:25.580 I think that's right. 352 00:25:25.580 --> 00:25:29.799 I will confess that I have been primarily focused on this from a public library perspective. 353 00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:35.360 I do think there's tremendous opportunity for synergy between academic and public libraries. 354 00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:38.049 I need to learn more about exactly what these cases are. 355 00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:43.509 In fact, one of the working groups that we agreed to kick off would focus specifically 356 00:25:43.509 --> 00:25:48.210 on library use cases, and, you know, originally, it was suggested that it be about academic 357 00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:52.270 cases, and then we decided it's about all different kinds of cases, so I think that 358 00:25:52.270 --> 00:25:54.600 is the next frontier for this work. 359 00:25:54.600 --> 00:26:01.799 We are developing a vision that I think does and can work for public libraries, and I think 360 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:06.860 the next step is to feel out how it needs to be adjusted, what are the requirements 361 00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:08.639 for academic libraries and how can they contribute. 362 00:26:08.639 --> 00:26:12.869 I think there's a lot of the same problems, and I would just say one example of that, 363 00:26:12.869 --> 00:26:21.809 you know, my experience, often what we buy, we are not asking for the same kinds of things 364 00:26:21.809 --> 00:26:25.429 from our vendors, and it's because we haven't had a use for it, but just as one specific 365 00:26:25.429 --> 00:26:33.000 example around interoperability and the important of those lines that connection the pictures, 366 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.419 if we just started in academic libraries asking our vendors to provide API's to the content 367 00:26:37.419 --> 00:26:45.350 so we can make the bibliographic information discoverable, that would allow us the piping 368 00:26:45.350 --> 00:26:48.740 to start thinking about serving that content through the same kinds of interfaces. 369 00:26:48.740 --> 00:26:52.510 So, I think we want to be careful about the user experience and making sure that it serves 370 00:26:52.510 --> 00:26:56.470 the specific use case we're targeting, but I think there's tremendous potential there. 371 00:26:56.470 --> 00:27:04.340 >> SPEAKER: Just to follow up, Jim, on your comment about e journals. 372 00:27:04.340 --> 00:27:09.799 One, we did have a meeting about e books two weeks ago. 373 00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:18.889 We'll be posting follow ups hopefully by the end of this week, and one of the comments 374 00:27:18.889 --> 00:27:28.929 that came up was a lot of ex librarians having flashbacks to negotiating these big licenses 375 00:27:28.929 --> 00:27:34.679 for e resource content, and we said how do we move those lessons forward. 376 00:27:34.679 --> 00:27:41.100 So, one of the action items out of the two day meeting was to bring together our folks 377 00:27:41.100 --> 00:27:49.109 that have that expertise and talk about transparency about licensing terms, best practices in licensing 378 00:27:49.109 --> 00:27:55.320 for e resources, and have a work group that really moves that expertise and those lessons 379 00:27:55.320 --> 00:27:59.919 learned into this e book conversation, so just kind of wanted to do a public announcement 380 00:27:59.919 --> 00:28:01.339 on that. 381 00:28:01.339 --> 00:28:08.470 >> SPEAKER: I just want to add a fact about the journal market, and Micah, just to put 382 00:28:08.470 --> 00:28:16.799 it into context with the e book, I'm looking at an STM report, this is a publisher report, 383 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:26.009 that says that in 2008, the STM brought in $8 billion. 384 00:28:26.009 --> 00:28:38.779 In 2013, it brought in $10 billion, and that 55 percent of that revenue, this now, what, 385 00:28:38.779 --> 00:28:43.129 $13 billion or whatever it is, comes from the United States. 386 00:28:43.129 --> 00:28:48.539 So, this is the amount of money that we are spending to rent access to content. 387 00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:55.370 >> SPEAKER: So, first of all, I guess it would be obvious if I thanked my colleague for the 388 00:28:55.370 --> 00:28:56.919 great conversation today. 389 00:28:56.919 --> 00:29:03.309 Mary, I thank you, and I do think, having worked in an academic library and now in a 390 00:29:03.309 --> 00:29:09.450 public library, that e books is actually one of those opportunities to look at how we create 391 00:29:09.450 --> 00:29:14.759 interoperability between different kinds of content. 392 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:21.980 So, we often think of things, it's a manuscript, it's an archive, it's an e journal, it's a 393 00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:22.980 monograph. 394 00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:27.940 Actually, this is an opportunity where people actually use a format, which is an e book, 395 00:29:27.940 --> 00:29:33.119 in chapters, in whole, with all kinds of marvelous opportunities with the nature of how reading 396 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.970 may occur in the next few years, and I think this is an opportunity for us to figure out 397 00:29:36.970 --> 00:29:38.309 how we put those things together. 398 00:29:38.309 --> 00:29:44.450 We, as the New York Public Library, have a great chance to actually do this because we 399 00:29:44.450 --> 00:29:49.669 have such a breadth and diversity of users in our community, we have independent scholars, 400 00:29:49.669 --> 00:29:53.890 we have kids who are learning to read, we have families who don't even speak English, 401 00:29:53.890 --> 00:29:58.440 and they're all interested in e books, and so I think this is an opportunity to partner 402 00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:02.940 much broader than our own walls, because we all share this need in common, so I just think 403 00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:07.269 this is a great fertile ground for collaboration between different kinds of institutions. 404 00:30:07.269 --> 00:30:09.879 >> SPEAKER: Thank you so much. 405 00:30:09.879 --> 00:30:13.210 We'll move on to the next. 406 00:30:13.210 --> 00:30:15.690 Well, time's up. 407 00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:17.509 We just got the time's up. 408 00:30:17.509 --> 00:30:19.460 Thank you. 409 00:30:19.460 --> 00:30:20.429 (Applause.)