WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en 1 00:00:00.350 --> 00:00:09.020 >>TREVOR: So, huge thanks to everyone again for joining us and those on the webcast as 2 00:00:09.020 --> 00:00:15.610 well. I'm excited to just turn things over here to John Palfrey. He's going to moderate 3 00:00:15.610 --> 00:00:24.670 a panel focusing on sort of education, training, professional development and building capacity 4 00:00:24.670 --> 00:00:29.750 to work with all these sorts of things we've been talking about today. So, I'm going to 5 00:00:29.750 --> 00:00:33.550 turn it over, and he's sort of queue things up and introduce the panel. 6 00:00:33.550 --> 00:00:39.260 >>JOHN PALFREY: Trevor, thank you so much, and thank you to Maura Marx for inviting me 7 00:00:39.260 --> 00:00:44.460 and all of us here. This panel is called cultivating digital library professionals. I think it's 8 00:00:44.460 --> 00:00:50.550 Maura's idea of a joke to have a non library professional to moderate, thank you, but I'm 9 00:00:50.550 --> 00:00:57.819 delighted to be here and spend time with this fabulous panel. We are going to have introductory 10 00:00:57.819 --> 00:01:03.319 statements by each of the four panelists, and then we will have some hopefully discussion 11 00:01:03.319 --> 00:01:10.189 among the panelists and open it up to all of you, so get your ideas ready. I think it 12 00:01:10.189 --> 00:01:13.939 makes sense for me just to introduce the group very quickly and then turn it right over to 13 00:01:13.939 --> 00:01:21.759 you guys. Andromeda Yelton is the owner of Small Beautiful Useful LLC which is one of 14 00:01:21.759 --> 00:01:28.050 the best names of a company ever heard, and I can't wait to hear more about it. Bethany 15 00:01:28.050 --> 00:01:34.770 Nowviskie is the director of the digital library federation, which everyone knows is affiliated 16 00:01:34.770 --> 00:01:39.869 with the council library and information resources. Kim Schroeder is lecturer is at Wayne State 17 00:01:39.869 --> 00:01:44.479 University in the school of library and information science, and Margo Padilla joins us as well 18 00:01:44.479 --> 00:01:47.770 and she is the strategic, programs manager from the metropolitan New York library council. 19 00:01:47.770 --> 00:01:53.210 And we will go down the row this way, ending with Margo in the clean up spot, and we will 20 00:01:53.210 --> 00:01:58.840 start with Andromeda. Over to you. >> ANDROMEDA YELTON: Thank you, John. I was 21 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:03.939 going to talk today about why ongoing tech training is hard, the nuts and bolts of pedagogy 22 00:02:03.939 --> 00:02:11.580 and what you can do to help. Maybe I still will in Q & A, but right now, 40 miles north 23 00:02:11.580 --> 00:02:17.250 of us, Baltimore is burning or maybe it isn't. It is 10,000 people protesting peacefully 24 00:02:17.250 --> 00:02:22.050 against many years of secret violence, violence kept secret with habitual gag orders with 25 00:02:22.050 --> 00:02:27.300 national media drawn like moths to the handful of flames. the stories I hear on Twitter are 26 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:33.110 not the same as the stories on CNN, and we as cultural heritage institutions are about 27 00:02:33.110 --> 00:02:38.670 our communities and their stories and about which stories are told, which are made canon 28 00:02:38.670 --> 00:02:44.180 and how and why. So, I want to talk about how technology training and digital platforms 29 00:02:44.180 --> 00:02:48.990 can either support or threaten our communities and their ability to tell their stories and 30 00:02:48.990 --> 00:02:53.690 to have their stories reflected and the canonical story that we build when we build a national 31 00:02:53.690 --> 00:02:59.940 platform I want to make it explicit that what we are doing in this room today is about deciding 32 00:02:59.940 --> 00:03:07.460 whose stories get told, by whom and how. Whose are valid, and whose are not. Whose get to 33 00:03:07.460 --> 00:03:13.950 reach our corridors of power only through protests and fire. I was reminded this morning 34 00:03:13.950 --> 00:03:19.160 of an article co authored by Myrna Moralis who was researching the young Lord's party, 35 00:03:19.160 --> 00:03:25.150 which is a political organization in her native Puerto Rico, and she was looking through library 36 00:03:25.150 --> 00:03:32.420 controlled vocabulary, and she couldn't find any literature about it, and a sinking feeling, 37 00:03:32.420 --> 00:03:39.260 she thought maybe she should check the header for gangs, and that was where she found information 38 00:03:39.260 --> 00:03:46.970 on this group, and I was reminded of a thing I did at a Harvard library cloud hack a thon 39 00:03:46.970 --> 00:03:55.290 earlier, intersectional library cloud, where I looked at the most popular elements circulated 40 00:03:55.290 --> 00:04:01.710 in Harvard, using the stack score and their API, and I looked at whether they also had 41 00:04:01.710 --> 00:04:09.820 subject headers that reflected women's studies or LGBT studies or African American studies, 42 00:04:09.820 --> 00:04:17.750 using code and meta data as a way to surface what people learn matters when they're doing 43 00:04:17.750 --> 00:04:24.220 scholarship and learning at one of the most famous institutions on earth. TLDR, it didn't 44 00:04:24.220 --> 00:04:29.660 really turn out to matter. They're not reading about stuff like that when they're reading 45 00:04:29.660 --> 00:04:35.420 the things that they mostly read at Harvard. So, the way that we structure our meta data, 46 00:04:35.420 --> 00:04:40.950 the content we seek, the tools we give people for interrogating the platform, whom we empower 47 00:04:40.950 --> 00:04:46.500 to use these tools and add this content and teach about these tools and construct them, 48 00:04:46.500 --> 00:04:51.680 how many they are, how diverse they are have these profound effects on which stories that 49 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:58.650 we advance and we say matter as cultural heritage institutions, which in turn, shapes the present 50 00:04:58.650 --> 00:05:02.600 and the future. I've said before that libraries are about 51 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:07.430 transforming people through access to information and each other, and that's true, but today, 52 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:12.120 I'm thinking more about what we can do to let more people transform libraries and how 53 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:17.970 libraries and our content and API's and platforms can be tools for more people to transform 54 00:05:17.970 --> 00:05:22.760 each other, how the meta data that courses through digital platforms is the frame we 55 00:05:22.760 --> 00:05:28.060 have to tell and interpret stories, and how, therefore, as meta data creators, we must 56 00:05:28.060 --> 00:05:34.270 be consciously inclusive, and how, when we train librarians to use and create national 57 00:05:34.270 --> 00:05:40.670 digital platforms, we can train them to use these skills in a contextually aware way, 58 00:05:40.670 --> 00:05:45.260 not just to understand technology and use it, but to interrogate it and construct it 59 00:05:45.260 --> 00:05:51.560 from a critical perspective, to see how technology interacts with our communities and our stories 60 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:57.740 and where those gaps are and how we can be part of bridging them, because here we are, 61 00:05:57.740 --> 00:06:05.120 comfortable and safe, mostly white, talking about how millions of dollars should be spent, 62 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:09.700 and Baltimore is covulsed by its history and by the blind eye so many of us have turned 63 00:06:09.700 --> 00:06:17.080 to it. >>BETHANY NOWVISKIE: Wow. That was fantastic. 64 00:06:17.080 --> 00:06:21.600 My message is going to be pretty simple, and I think it will inevitably, in the last panel 65 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:25.890 of the day, reinforce some points we've already talked about today. I also think it still 66 00:06:25.890 --> 00:06:32.950 dove tails with her sort of welcomed intervention, because what I'm talking about too is community, 67 00:06:32.950 --> 00:06:37.669 and the message is this, that we need to put as much energy into connecting and building 68 00:06:37.669 --> 00:06:44.830 up groups of people into developing and supporting the motivated skilled, diverse and intersecting 69 00:06:44.830 --> 00:06:50.730 communities of practitioners that we have as we do in connecting the services, the systems 70 00:06:50.730 --> 00:06:56.540 and the other pillars of the national digital platform. So, the first thing that should 71 00:06:56.540 --> 00:07:02.220 come into many institutions is not another technology component that you have to support, 72 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:08.340 but rather a functioning social conduit to a broader culture that understands digital 73 00:07:08.340 --> 00:07:15.040 library workers and that values the various communities that they inhabit and intersect 74 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:22.949 with and are inspired by. So, I see the continuous renewal and expansion of expert practitioner 75 00:07:22.949 --> 00:07:28.640 communities as our most fundamental sustainability issue. It's the one on which all the others 76 00:07:28.640 --> 00:07:32.960 depends, and I'm consciously using the word community here rather than calling this our 77 00:07:32.960 --> 00:07:38.230 digital library workforce or similar, even though I know there's such danger that such 78 00:07:38.230 --> 00:07:44.830 a happy sounding word could make us elide difficult often gendered labor issues in the 79 00:07:44.830 --> 00:07:51.500 discussions, but I do it for two reasons, and the first is it helps us scale up a conversation 80 00:07:51.500 --> 00:07:58.220 that is too often about local and individual professional development, and also because 81 00:07:58.220 --> 00:08:04.930 of how it plays on individuals as a concept. So, understanding that you are part of a community 82 00:08:04.930 --> 00:08:11.370 changes your ethical orientation toward your colleagues, your users, your shared work. 83 00:08:11.370 --> 00:08:18.949 Most of all, it sharpens your sense of futurity, your inclination to look beyond immediate 84 00:08:18.949 --> 00:08:25.970 horizons and to consider the much longer term. Communities, as we just heard, have prospect 85 00:08:25.970 --> 00:08:34.119 and retrospect, futures and histories. They're predicated on mutual support and common fate, 86 00:08:34.119 --> 00:08:38.289 and they have the capacity to draw together people at different career stages or with 87 00:08:38.289 --> 00:08:43.360 diverse professional identities and personal orientations towards user groups.. Communities 88 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:48.470 themselves set intellectual direction in ways that bear watching. 89 00:08:48.470 --> 00:08:54.759 So, this is why funding programs that support projects at national scale need, at the very 90 00:08:54.759 --> 00:09:00.759 least, to stay plugged into the conversations of practitioner in communities as those communities 91 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:06.959 develop in their self conception, and as we hope they continue to develop demographically 92 00:09:06.959 --> 00:09:13.920 to better represent American society. Now, the first law for a funder in relation to 93 00:09:13.920 --> 00:09:19.889 this evolution may be do no harm, and this is perhaps to return to some of the concerns 94 00:09:19.889 --> 00:09:24.649 that we heard right off the bat this morning about these programs maybe inadvertently reinforcing 95 00:09:24.649 --> 00:09:30.430 a kind of totalizing homogeneity. At best though, being aware of how our various practioner 96 00:09:30.430 --> 00:09:36.829 communities are evolving and where they may be stagnating could help agencies like IMLS 97 00:09:36.829 --> 00:09:42.480 make enabling investments at crucial moments. On the other hand, the trick for funders is 98 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:48.819 how to support developer communities through programs that are necessarily and fruitfully 99 00:09:48.819 --> 00:09:54.990 user and project oriented. So, a lot of what I've been talking about sounds like the Laura 100 00:09:54.990 --> 00:10:00.420 Bush 21st century librarian grants, which is a wonderful framework for supporting practitioners 101 00:10:00.420 --> 00:10:05.009 as individuals as individuals and cohorts, but how you tie programs like this to the 102 00:10:05.009 --> 00:10:11.059 infrastructure building that we're talking about today with this IMLS priority may not 103 00:10:11.059 --> 00:10:17.190 be immediately obvious. We know it's necessary, that's clear, because the best professional 104 00:10:17.190 --> 00:10:22.889 development and frankly the only meaningful community development comes through project 105 00:10:22.889 --> 00:10:30.199 based learning involving real world situations and collaborations. So one possibility is 106 00:10:30.199 --> 00:10:38.259 to infuse the spirit of those LB21 grants throughout IMLS that is to require more strongly 107 00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:43.509 that professional development outcomes for grant participants and for their larger communities 108 00:10:43.509 --> 00:10:50.889 of practice be formally addressed in all IMLS programs. So if we agree that this is a crucial 109 00:10:50.889 --> 00:10:57.429 part of increasing our national capacity, it should be taken seriously in all of our 110 00:10:57.429 --> 00:11:04.819 grant applications and in all of our reports of outcomes. We know that much of the value 111 00:11:04.819 --> 00:11:10.540 of a funded project comes in around the edges of the core deliverable, and a requirement 112 00:11:10.540 --> 00:11:17.249 like this becomes a tool for individual staff members, for middle managers to use to create 113 00:11:17.249 --> 00:11:23.750 healthy local institutional cultures. So want a grant? Show that not only can you get a 114 00:11:23.750 --> 00:11:30.639 worthwhile project done, but that the experience of working on it in community will positively 115 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:35.610 impact the careers and the potential of your staff for years to come. Show awareness of 116 00:11:35.610 --> 00:11:41.910 how your people fit into and interface with and help advance expert communities of national 117 00:11:41.910 --> 00:11:49.721 and global scope. >>KIM SCHROEDER: So being the last panelist 118 00:11:49.721 --> 00:11:55.489 of the day I am throwing out my presentation entirely, but in digging around (inaudible) 119 00:11:55.489 --> 00:12:02.149 last night, I was looking at early models for library and archival education, and they 120 00:12:02.149 --> 00:12:08.689 pretty much followed a model we are familiar with which is lecture and practice. And as 121 00:12:08.689 --> 00:12:14.619 far as we take our new skills to educate our students now which will be your employees 122 00:12:14.619 --> 00:12:21.329 soon, it has been the challenge, so we know there has to be some kind of hybrid between 123 00:12:21.329 --> 00:12:27.059 lecture and practice. How much practice? How much practice, do they need to know to be 124 00:12:27.059 --> 00:12:33.300 able to come in and be viable employees without extensive training. How much professional 125 00:12:33.300 --> 00:12:38.269 development will they need ongoing. how are you going to manage this. How many volunteer 126 00:12:38.269 --> 00:12:42.880 projects can students handle in the midst of getting a graduate education. So, these 127 00:12:42.880 --> 00:12:50.339 are all things that we are really struggling with in our field and we have great discussions 128 00:12:50.339 --> 00:12:57.610 at the faculty meetings about this. So, my proposal really is that none of our traditional 129 00:12:57.610 --> 00:13:04.100 skills can slide and we're adding new skills, I would just propose that we double curriculum. 130 00:13:04.100 --> 00:13:10.800 That's pretty much it. It was a joke. Obviously, financially, we can't do that to the students, 131 00:13:10.800 --> 00:13:17.269 so trying to figure out how to teach them to really execute the research methods in 132 00:13:17.269 --> 00:13:24.459 a lab is really vital for feasibility for us to be able to understand interoperability, 133 00:13:24.459 --> 00:13:29.579 to understand how to patch together various systems to allow your meta data to stream 134 00:13:29.579 --> 00:13:34.899 through, how to build digital preservation into the management of your assets. It's really 135 00:13:34.899 --> 00:13:41.079 a humongous challenge, and I think that we definitely need more insight into discussions 136 00:13:41.079 --> 00:13:51.420 like this, but also the library schools archival institutions and allied educational organizations 137 00:13:51.420 --> 00:13:57.049 need to discuss further what we need, not that we're going to have a great standardization, 138 00:13:57.049 --> 00:14:03.689 but we need to better understand what we're providing our students and what they come 139 00:14:03.689 --> 00:14:09.540 to a potential job able to do so we need to speak to students, we need to speak to employers 140 00:14:09.540 --> 00:14:15.639 and among ourselves in education we need to do more talking. And if I could just for a 141 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:25.119 minute, I will repeat this into the microphone, I would be very interested to know what type 142 00:14:25.119 --> 00:14:38.519 of skills you would like a new employee have when they walk into your institution. A fact 143 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:51.990 of purpose. Anybody else? Willingness to learn with whoever you are helping. An entrepreneurial 144 00:14:51.990 --> 00:15:07.009 spirit definitely something we like to garner. Curious? Okay. Solid communication skills. 145 00:15:07.009 --> 00:15:16.610 Margo said lift 45 pounds. What about (laughing.) What about project management or managing 146 00:15:16.610 --> 00:15:22.290 technology? I mean, that's something that we're very interested in. I like fearless. 147 00:15:22.290 --> 00:15:27.449 I'm teaching a class this summer where we're going to really take apart a Lenix server 148 00:15:27.449 --> 00:15:32.939 and work at installing a lot of different pieces that have been mentioned today and 149 00:15:32.939 --> 00:15:39.790 have them understand what that entails and that it's not, that you still have a do over 150 00:15:39.790 --> 00:15:43.489 if it doesn't work the first time, because I think there's a lot of intimidation. So, 151 00:15:43.489 --> 00:15:48.350 those kinds of new skills, understanding linked data, I have students come to me all the time 152 00:15:48.350 --> 00:15:53.269 and say, well, which programming language should I take? I obviously cannot answer that 153 00:15:53.269 --> 00:15:58.489 question for them, it depends what they want to do with their career, but the bottom line 154 00:15:58.489 --> 00:16:03.449 as far as teaching some of this technology is that the students have to be able to demonstrate 155 00:16:03.449 --> 00:16:11.059 to you that they can learn technologies, and so that's, from the education standpoint, 156 00:16:11.059 --> 00:16:15.809 what we're trying to build within our students, that they can learn the technologies, because 157 00:16:15.809 --> 00:16:20.629 as you all know, it's unlikely you will find one person with every single technology skill 158 00:16:20.629 --> 00:16:27.359 and traditional skill in a job posting, but if they have an allied skill and allied competency 159 00:16:27.359 --> 00:16:31.679 in another technology, you know they're trainable and that they will be able to pick that up 160 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:36.350 and be effective with it. So, we have a lot of challenges, and I really think we need 161 00:16:36.350 --> 00:16:43.269 to do larger surveys with employers and students and the educational community to understand 162 00:16:43.269 --> 00:16:51.639 what it is, what our end goal is. >>MARGO PADILLA: So, I'm the program director 163 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:55.490 for the national digital stewardship residency in New York, and I'm here to talk about the 164 00:16:55.490 --> 00:16:59.670 program, which I think attempts to address some of the issues that have already been 165 00:16:59.670 --> 00:17:03.929 brought up. The program was developed to cultivate the next generation of digital stewards by 166 00:17:03.929 --> 00:17:08.199 placing recent master's degree recipients in host institutions and having them work 167 00:17:08.199 --> 00:17:12.929 on a significant digital stewardship project. The program is currently being implemented 168 00:17:12.929 --> 00:17:18.199 in Washington, DC, Boston, New York. It will soon be a virtual program administered by 169 00:17:18.199 --> 00:17:24.640 WGBH and the American Archive of Public Broadcasting. The program is still fairly new. We have 20 170 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:29.220 residents that have so far gone through the program, so we're still learning what some 171 00:17:29.220 --> 00:17:33.770 of the issues are, but we have accomplished many of our goals. The goals of the program 172 00:17:33.770 --> 00:17:38.169 is to act as a bridge for students coming out of graduate programs to further equip 173 00:17:38.169 --> 00:17:42.429 them with the skills they need not only to be competitive in the job market but also 174 00:17:42.429 --> 00:17:47.539 to have a meaningful impact on digital stewardship, but to also become leaders in the field. The 175 00:17:47.539 --> 00:17:51.760 program also strives to place residents in organizations where they can really boost 176 00:17:51.760 --> 00:17:56.740 the entire program and to get the organization to get to the next level in its digital preservation 177 00:17:56.740 --> 00:18:03.429 long term goals. For projects we tend to look for intellectual engagement for the resident, 178 00:18:03.429 --> 00:18:08.330 but also lots of hands on work. We really want them to get their hands dirty. We also 179 00:18:08.330 --> 00:18:13.580 look for projects that address issues faced by organizations nationwide, so for example, 180 00:18:13.580 --> 00:18:18.559 in the current round in New York we are dealing with providing access to born digital records, 181 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:24.210 long term preservation of scientific data, and quality assurance measures for web archiving. 182 00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:27.929 So when the residents arrive, we have two to three days of initial instruction, and 183 00:18:27.929 --> 00:18:32.111 we do digital preservation basics to make sure everyone is on the same page, and we 184 00:18:32.111 --> 00:18:37.750 also work on their project management skills. After that we have one to two workshops per 185 00:18:37.750 --> 00:18:46.720 month and those are really hands on and immersive. During this time the residents are regularly 186 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:52.580 presenting on their work locally, regionally, and nationally, and we are actively participating 187 00:18:52.580 --> 00:18:57.360 in the digital community stewardship, established by the program and by the host institution. 188 00:18:57.360 --> 00:19:02.529 So, every host institution commits at least one mentor to the resident, and this may be 189 00:19:02.529 --> 00:19:06.350 mentored who may or may not have a strong digital preservation background, but we really 190 00:19:06.350 --> 00:19:10.299 like to have someone in the resident's corner who can help them navigate the ins and outs 191 00:19:10.299 --> 00:19:15.139 of the institution. A lot of times these residents are implementing new procedures and policies, 192 00:19:15.139 --> 00:19:18.980 and they need to be mentored to help them sort of navigate the waters. The mentor is 193 00:19:18.980 --> 00:19:24.460 also there to help guide the resident through experimentation, through pitfalls, helping 194 00:19:24.460 --> 00:19:27.871 them expand the skills that they bring to the residency and acquire those that they 195 00:19:27.871 --> 00:19:31.640 still need. One of the strongest elements of the program 196 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:38.110 is the cohort model. So, the cohorts come to work off of each other's skills and connections, 197 00:19:38.110 --> 00:19:43.340 and we really aim to have past, present and future cohorts networked and talking and exchanging 198 00:19:43.340 --> 00:19:48.139 ideas, and this is sort of where we start to think about scaling up the NDSR program. 199 00:19:48.139 --> 00:19:52.570 NDSR has the potential to become a collection of these one off projects, so we are trying 200 00:19:52.570 --> 00:19:57.070 to stay focused on the big picture. How does NDSR leverage funding that goes to a particular 201 00:19:57.070 --> 00:20:01.309 iteration of the program towards building a national capacity. So, one of the small 202 00:20:01.309 --> 00:20:06.360 steps we've taken in that direction is requiring the residents to create reports and documentation 203 00:20:06.360 --> 00:20:12.010 of their process and what worked and what didn't so that other organizations that are 204 00:20:12.010 --> 00:20:16.870 addressing these issues can replicate it for themselves. Another way is, again, focusing 205 00:20:16.870 --> 00:20:21.539 on the residents. They gather for their time in the program and then proceed to get jobs 206 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:25.830 throughout the country. By keeping all the cohorts networked, they become this incredibly 207 00:20:25.830 --> 00:20:30.899 skilled and community, helping each other with problems, helping each other identify 208 00:20:30.899 --> 00:20:35.850 opportunities and sometimes just offering words of encouragement Establishing a community 209 00:20:35.850 --> 00:20:39.889 for recent graduates can help us retain some of the talent that might otherwise leave our 210 00:20:39.889 --> 00:20:45.780 field by making them feel invested and committed and even special. When so many jobs are short 211 00:20:45.780 --> 00:20:51.260 term or temporary, NDSR can help anchor new professionals. The program continues to evolve, 212 00:20:51.260 --> 00:20:56.990 and we will be welcoming new cohorts this year. We look forward to integrating a lot 213 00:20:56.990 --> 00:21:01.669 of what has been brought up today. >>JOHN PALFREY: Thank you guys very much. 214 00:21:01.669 --> 00:21:07.600 This is a terrific range of view points on this broad and important question. I have 215 00:21:07.600 --> 00:21:11.299 two things that I wanted to ask, but I see that Mike has got his hand up right now, so 216 00:21:11.299 --> 00:21:15.839 I'm going to defer to Mike and fold in my questions as we go. Jump right in. 217 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:32.350 >> SPEAKER IN AUDIENCE: I'm going to 218 00:21:32.350 --> 00:21:36.983 confess a personal bias, a person who has spent six wonderful years working in a library 219 00:21:36.983 --> 00:21:40.590 and does not have a library degree, and I often wonder if I need to go back and get 220 00:21:40.590 --> 00:21:50.450 one to ever be a legitimate library worker, and I can say, as someone who is not a librarian, 221 00:21:50.450 --> 00:22:01.990 that's a caveat on every idea I have. I guess my question is, you know, I think that it's 222 00:22:01.990 --> 00:22:06.480 right, part of the problem of professional development is clearly about expanding the 223 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:12.289 set of skills that you impart to library school grads. Another question and idea is what about 224 00:22:12.289 --> 00:22:17.940 imparting some basic concept of libraries to grads from law school, business school, 225 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:22.500 design school, you know, computer programming grads, so just one example of the kind of 226 00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:26.150 thing. I don't have a business degree, but I worked at McKenzie for four years, and they 227 00:22:26.150 --> 00:22:29.889 have this thing called a mini MBA, which is three weeks and is supposed to give you the 228 00:22:29.889 --> 00:22:32.919 highlights of what you would have gotten had you gone 2 years to business school. A little 229 00:22:32.919 --> 00:22:37.850 insulting to anyone who went to business school. I wonder about, you know, a mini LLM or a 230 00:22:37.850 --> 00:22:43.399 mini library degree for people who bring something valuable from another discipline but want 231 00:22:43.399 --> 00:22:47.170 to know more about library school and what they would have learned there but aren't quite 232 00:22:47.170 --> 00:22:51.510 willing to go back to night school for three years to do it. Do you have thoughts on how 233 00:22:51.510 --> 00:22:58.039 you can embrace more deeply other than librarians and archivists as legitimate and contributing 234 00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:06.490 library workers? >>KIM SCHROEDER: Well, one of the things that 235 00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:10.790 we are all, you know, in recognition of is that everything we do is collaborative, and, 236 00:23:10.790 --> 00:23:16.510 so, we need people with various perspectives. So, I don't have any urge for a very homogeneous 237 00:23:16.510 --> 00:23:23.169 discipline or execution of our projects, I don't think that would be the best use of 238 00:23:23.169 --> 00:23:29.039 our time. I, being an educator, yes, I would love for you to come get your MLAS, that would 239 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:34.580 be great, but I also understand finances and time and once you already have a career out 240 00:23:34.580 --> 00:23:38.899 there, there's a lot of other things to do with your time, but I think that you can get 241 00:23:38.899 --> 00:23:45.129 at some of that through the collaborations that you do, and certainly, I don't have a 242 00:23:45.129 --> 00:23:48.440 technology degree, but I spend a lot of time with tech people trying to absorb as much 243 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:54.210 as I can, so I don't feel bad that I don't have a tech degree, and I hope they don't 244 00:23:54.210 --> 00:23:58.749 feel bad they don't have an MLAS, so I just think we learn from each other. 245 00:23:58.749 --> 00:24:06.870 >> JOHN PALFREY: Kim, could you imagine a mini three week intensive, you know, MLAS 246 00:24:06.870 --> 00:24:13.500 sort of thing, and do you do anything that is distance learning? So could Micah from 247 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:17.539 New York be at Wayne State in any way to get his mini degree? 248 00:24:17.539 --> 00:24:24.100 >>KIM SCHROEDER: I could envision that, actually, and we have a very entrepreneurial management 249 00:24:24.100 --> 00:24:28.820 there, so I will take that back and ask them about it, honestly, and we do have an online 250 00:24:28.820 --> 00:24:36.100 program for digital curation folks, not yet for archives, so there are definitely things 251 00:24:36.100 --> 00:24:39.389 that you can do online. >>JOHN PALFREY: A short while into my time 252 00:24:39.389 --> 00:24:44.649 as a library director without a library degree, I found myself in Jim Neal's office at Columbia, 253 00:24:44.649 --> 00:24:51.129 and he taught me the term feral, I was a feral librarian, a feral profession, and it was 254 00:24:51.129 --> 00:24:56.909 fine and not to worry too much about it, but I do think that you might find that Micah's 255 00:24:56.909 --> 00:25:01.899 idea would both be a business opportunity for some leading "I" schools and library schools, 256 00:25:01.899 --> 00:25:04.620 and but also something that would actually meet a need that's slightly different than 257 00:25:04.620 --> 00:25:09.281 somebody going back for two or three year to do a full on degree; it might expand upon 258 00:25:09.281 --> 00:25:14.960 the number of people who might get involved. >> SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: I'm Deanna Bell. 259 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:19.789 I'm assuming that I'm here as a past president of the Society of American Archivists and 260 00:25:19.789 --> 00:25:27.590 not because I work at the Library of Congress. One, I do want to mention that the society 261 00:25:27.590 --> 00:25:34.441 of American archivists does offer a digital archivist certification program to become 262 00:25:34.441 --> 00:25:40.570 a digital archive specialist, nine courses and then you take a test, so that would be 263 00:25:40.570 --> 00:25:45.389 an option. If we're looking at professional development, it sounded very much as if some 264 00:25:45.389 --> 00:25:51.129 of the presentations that were being discussed were for new professionals, not for those 265 00:25:51.129 --> 00:26:00.139 of us who have years in the profession. Second, to respond to the idea of a course that mentored 266 00:26:00.139 --> 00:26:06.039 could take and become mentored with a degree, well, be the equivalent of mentored with an 267 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:13.980 MLIS or, you know, get those activities, for a long time, the national archives and records 268 00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:19.120 administration offered a two week program called the modern archives institute where 269 00:26:19.120 --> 00:26:25.529 you learned the basic skills so that you were prepared. There are other versions of it known 270 00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:32.810 as the western archives institute, there's one that's done in the south, so there are 271 00:26:32.810 --> 00:26:39.450 those options out there that are available. I do want to go back to something that happened 272 00:26:39.450 --> 00:26:48.090 earlier this morning about how you can reach the users. I primarily work with teachers, 273 00:26:48.090 --> 00:26:53.279 and they're the ones who, we discovered when we put out American Memory, our number one 274 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:59.450 user group was teachers. We're not talking to the teachers, we're not talking to the 275 00:26:59.450 --> 00:27:09.029 folklorist who is reaching out into the communities, and we should be doing that as well, and the 276 00:27:09.029 --> 00:27:14.539 last thing, I do want to respond to Andromeda and something that she said. How many of you 277 00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:20.240 have family members that are in Baltimore? I do. I spent a lot of time talking to my 278 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:27.009 mom last night, who lives about 20 minutes away from where all this was happening, and 279 00:27:27.009 --> 00:27:32.659 I'm feeling a little bit of frustration towards some of what Andromeda was saying, because, 280 00:27:32.659 --> 00:27:38.509 yeah, Baltimore was burning, but I think there's some reasons why beyond just the anger and 281 00:27:38.509 --> 00:27:43.929 frustration of a person being involved in police custody. 282 00:27:43.929 --> 00:27:48.240 >>JOHN PALFREY: Do you want to say more on that topic since it's the issue of the day 283 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:51.649 for all of us? >> SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: I will be honest, 284 00:27:51.649 --> 00:27:58.629 I am not conservative, my mom is, but the thing that frustrates me about some of this 285 00:27:58.629 --> 00:28:03.700 is that the African American community is destroying its own community. They're not 286 00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:12.649 going and storming city hall, they're not going and doing things like that, they burned 287 00:28:12.649 --> 00:28:19.370 down a senior center that was being built to support the seniors in the community, they 288 00:28:19.370 --> 00:28:26.049 went in and looted the CVS that everyone was talking about before they burned it down. 289 00:28:26.049 --> 00:28:34.210 They're destroying their own communities, they're not saying, hey, come and help us. 290 00:28:34.210 --> 00:28:40.379 It's happened, it happened in Los Angeles, it happened with the riots after Martin Luther 291 00:28:40.379 --> 00:28:47.139 King was assassinated, and my concern is that, all right, yeah, there are problems in the 292 00:28:47.139 --> 00:28:52.929 African American community, there's been anywhere from 50 to 80 percent unemployment for African 293 00:28:52.929 --> 00:28:59.909 American males, there was an article in the New York Times about the disappearing African 294 00:28:59.909 --> 00:29:05.970 American male and that more and more and more African American males are either incarcerated 295 00:29:05.970 --> 00:29:16.679 or dying but the community that is out there is destroying itself. Not just the majority 296 00:29:16.679 --> 00:29:24.840 community destroying the African American community, so I have major fears when my 81 297 00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:30.630 year old mother, I am calling her and going do I need to come up and get you because you 298 00:29:30.630 --> 00:29:34.750 are ten minutes away from where everything is burning down, and you live in the roughest 299 00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:40.160 part of Baltimore city, on with one of the highest crime rates and the largest drug communities, 300 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:52.299 so my concern is if we are talking about how we are supporting the community, we need to 301 00:29:52.299 --> 00:29:57.879 be looking at the libraries. In Ferguson when they opened their libraries, the two libraries 302 00:29:57.879 --> 00:30:17.340 I went to as a kid are closed. The branches in my community are shuttered, and I am sure 303 00:30:17.340 --> 00:30:25.450 the other one is too. That is ten minutes from where my mom lives and where the burning 304 00:30:25.450 --> 00:30:28.720 is taking place. >>JOHN PALFREY: I saw a few hands, but Andromeda, 305 00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:33.039 did you want to say.. >>ANDROMEDA YELTAN: I don't think I can add 306 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:38.660 anything to the voice of someone who has lived in the city. I haven't. 307 00:30:38.660 --> 00:30:49.659 >>SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: Librarianship is one of the few professions that does not require 308 00:30:49.659 --> 00:30:58.049 any continuing education or certification of its members. There are exceptions, health 309 00:30:58.049 --> 00:31:03.179 sciences, law, but for the most part, we do not have that requirement, we might have that 310 00:31:03.179 --> 00:31:10.759 expectation. Can you speak to that as whether we need to start to work on as a community. 311 00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:19.649 >>BETHANY NOWVISKIE; I think there would be advantages and severe disadvantages to instituting 312 00:31:19.649 --> 00:31:28.240 ongoing certification. The advantages would be scale and scope. You reach everybody, it 313 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:34.149 is part of the culture, it is part of what is done and there is no chance of remaining 314 00:31:34.149 --> 00:31:41.139 working in libraries without keeping your skills up, without but there are other factors 315 00:31:41.139 --> 00:31:50.309 to taking care of that problem. When I think of that I think of teachers re-upping their 316 00:31:50.309 --> 00:31:58.980 certifications. It is not a sort of nimble system. It's not a system that is very easy 317 00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:06.320 to sort of intervene in, to advance. The very often big sort of slow moving system like 318 00:32:06.320 --> 00:32:17.580 that reifies a decade ago's, you know, cutting edge. So, do we want to setup a sort of formal 319 00:32:17.580 --> 00:32:24.769 re upping of certification or do we want to depend on the kind of user communities and 320 00:32:24.769 --> 00:32:29.780 sort of practitioner communities that I'm talking about to be a little narrower, to 321 00:32:29.780 --> 00:32:35.650 be a little more specific and to be a lot more sort of current in what it is that they're 322 00:32:35.650 --> 00:32:42.879 teaching each other? That's probably where I would invest rather than in something more 323 00:32:42.879 --> 00:32:45.269 formal. >> JOHN PALFREY: Bethany, you talked in an 324 00:32:45.269 --> 00:32:49.899 eloquent way about the notion of project based learning as something that would be helpful 325 00:32:49.899 --> 00:32:55.210 in the context of learning library skills. Could you imagine marrying that idea to Jim's 326 00:32:55.210 --> 00:32:59.870 in some fashion to come up with a series of projects that need working on that would, 327 00:32:59.870 --> 00:33:03.710 in essence, be something somebody might do in regards to ongoing training in some fashion? 328 00:33:03.710 --> 00:33:10.010 >>BETHANY NOWVISKIE: Absolutely. I'm pretty new to the federal library association, I've 329 00:33:10.010 --> 00:33:29.440 been there a week and a half, but before that, I spent 20 years at the University of Virginia 330 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:33.210 working in the digital humanities community, and most recently, directing the scholars 331 00:33:33.210 --> 00:33:40.119 lab and its graduate fellows programs, which over the years have evolved from solo fellowships 332 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:45.820 for graduate students working in the digital humanities to team based and project based 333 00:33:45.820 --> 00:33:53.909 fellowships, and we watched, because the scholars lab as a digital humanities center is administratively 334 00:33:53.909 --> 00:33:58.759 embedded in a library, all along, we were thinking and talking with librarians about 335 00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:06.710 how do you move that outward, how do you apply that kind of interdisciplinary cohort based 336 00:34:06.710 --> 00:34:11.810 learning that happens around a real world project, so these are fellowships that graduate 337 00:34:11.810 --> 00:34:19.960 students get to join a cohort of five other grad students, all from different disciplines, 338 00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:27.470 to conceive of, prototype, launch and assess a software project in the course of a year, 339 00:34:27.470 --> 00:34:33.910 so they really are thrown into the deep end. It's been really neat to see that concept 340 00:34:33.910 --> 00:34:41.000 spread out to other libraries. So, Columbia's developing a librarian program, UVA is exploring 341 00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:47.150 a praxis for librarians. So, just that model as our graduate students finished up and moved 342 00:34:47.150 --> 00:34:55.929 on into libraries and cultural heritage institutions rather than into the professoriate, taking 343 00:34:55.929 --> 00:35:00.670 that kind of concept with them, so I think that's a professional development model that 344 00:35:00.670 --> 00:35:05.000 has legs, and it also can get things done. >>JOHN PALFREY: Kim or Margo, do you want 345 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:10.620 to respond to Jim's question? >>MARGO PADILLA: Yeah, just, I'm not ready 346 00:35:10.620 --> 00:35:17.210 yet to throw in the towel on the library schools. I think there's still ways to sort of develop 347 00:35:17.210 --> 00:35:23.150 what they're doing there, maybe through cohorts or through specialized tracks before you start 348 00:35:23.150 --> 00:35:27.420 requiring additional education, once you've already invested in the IMLS. 349 00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:33.660 >>JOHN PALFREY: Yes, please? >> SPEAKER: This is Trevor Munoz. I am curious, 350 00:35:33.660 --> 00:35:40.320 I would like the panel to reflect a little bit more on working on thinking about library 351 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:45.730 museum leadership, so who they see as possible cohorts, opportunities for further development. 352 00:35:45.730 --> 00:35:50.870 I'm interested as to who you see as part of these people, because I think some of the 353 00:35:50.870 --> 00:35:55.880 leadership of these organizations sees certain parts of their staff as maybe more ready or 354 00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:01.750 more able to go out and be part of something that, say, the DLF would do and are maybe 355 00:36:01.750 --> 00:36:06.240 not looking at their cataloging department with the same kind of eyes, and I wonder if 356 00:36:06.240 --> 00:36:11.360 you could sort of talk about that challenge, about helping these institutions re imagine 357 00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:17.030 with their staff who are there, who might not be as comfortable self identifying and 358 00:36:17.030 --> 00:36:20.530 self promoting about being ready for change but who are ready for change. 359 00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:29.090 >>BETHANY NOWVISKIE: If I might jump in to say that subject librarians are another one 360 00:36:29.090 --> 00:36:35.150 of those cohorts that often don't get that kind of attention or aren't assumed to want 361 00:36:35.150 --> 00:36:41.770 to leap in, and that's why I'm attracted to this model of sort of investing in expert 362 00:36:41.770 --> 00:36:50.100 practitioner communities and really letting them define intellectual direction and help 363 00:36:50.100 --> 00:36:58.410 us see what they see as their user communities and what they see as their sort of, their 364 00:36:58.410 --> 00:37:04.850 communities, right, because that often will include people from other sectors of the library, 365 00:37:04.850 --> 00:37:10.320 people in scholarly communities that use these resources or help build these tools and wanted 366 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:19.340 to find them, so that's my sort of off the cuff response, is that I think we don't ask 367 00:37:19.340 --> 00:37:24.750 those smaller groups that we very often target for this kind of, you know, praxis program 368 00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:31.520 like experience. We don't often ask them in setting something like that up, who do you 369 00:37:31.520 --> 00:37:37.300 want to pull in, who do you need, this is not going to work unless you bring in who? 370 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:42.930 Tell us. >>KIM SCHROEDER: On a smaller scale, we have 371 00:37:42.930 --> 00:37:49.470 a digital media projects lab at our school, and we use it to outreach to our community, 372 00:37:49.470 --> 00:37:55.560 so we have, you know, a real to real audio conversion system, lots of audio, lots of 373 00:37:55.560 --> 00:38:04.240 other video formats, and when we work with smaller museums and other cultural institutions, 374 00:38:04.240 --> 00:38:10.371 they pretty much let us lead everything because they're so understaffed, so, you know, we've 375 00:38:10.371 --> 00:38:16.070 been talking about the big scale, but on the smaller scale, they're so grateful for a graduate 376 00:38:16.070 --> 00:38:22.660 student, the equipment, all of that to be dispensed, they often don't know what to ask 377 00:38:22.660 --> 00:38:27.360 for, so they don't realize they need a digital preservation plan, they just know they needed 378 00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:34.750 something digitized. So, we try to use that as a teaching moment to sort of ratchet up 379 00:38:34.750 --> 00:38:40.470 and educate them about managing their digital and how they're creating access and long term 380 00:38:40.470 --> 00:38:43.291 preservation. >>JOHN PALFREY: I wonder if I could take an 381 00:38:43.291 --> 00:38:47.250 example from the previous panel and then put it back to you guys as a specific, which was 382 00:38:47.250 --> 00:38:52.340 I was struck by Trevor describing the idea of meta data mobs and why we didn't necessarily 383 00:38:52.340 --> 00:38:58.490 have more people in that kind of mode working on collaborative projects. If you were to 384 00:38:58.490 --> 00:39:02.700 compare, for instance, what happens to Wikipedia, the notion of Wikimania, the number of people 385 00:39:02.700 --> 00:39:08.090 who contribute to that, the idea that you have a bunch of people coming together, geeking 386 00:39:08.090 --> 00:39:13.100 out, improving articles and meeting on an annual basis, in the context of DPLA, and 387 00:39:13.100 --> 00:39:17.930 we've tried to do a version of that, but it's definitely not, you know, thousands of librarians 388 00:39:17.930 --> 00:39:21.960 rolling up their sleeves and adding meta data, which I think it could be, and if you think 389 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:27.710 about how many potential people could participate in this, whether it is library students, actual 390 00:39:27.710 --> 00:39:32.420 librarians, retired librarians, why don't we have meta data mobs, and if that actually 391 00:39:32.420 --> 00:39:36.150 is potentially something that we would want, and I embrace Trevor's suggestion, I think 392 00:39:36.150 --> 00:39:40.720 it's a great one, what's between here and there, and is it that we need to change the 393 00:39:40.720 --> 00:39:44.430 culture of the community, to take your term, Bethany, is it that there's more we could 394 00:39:44.430 --> 00:39:51.251 do in library schools or in programs like the one that Margo's running? Does professional 395 00:39:51.251 --> 00:39:55.920 development need to be more? What's standing between us and really, really productive meta 396 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:01.833 data mobs and coding groups developing? Why haven't those things happened in the library 397 00:40:01.833 --> 00:40:07.600 community? Maybe a better way, how do we get to the place where they are, assuming that's 398 00:40:07.600 --> 00:40:11.220 a good thing? >>KIM SCHROEDER: Well, we have 120 years of 399 00:40:11.220 --> 00:40:19.010 library education behind us, and these are paradigm shifts, and we have to do more talking, 400 00:40:19.010 --> 00:40:25.160 we have to do needs assessment, we have to do structure in order to gather the information, 401 00:40:25.160 --> 00:40:30.900 we have to, again, survey the population, whether they're users, employers, students, 402 00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:36.410 etc., so there's a lot of work to be done, much as we talked about earlier today. So, 403 00:40:36.410 --> 00:40:41.120 I don't think there's a lack of will, I think that most institutions are just trying to 404 00:40:41.120 --> 00:40:45.570 survive in their world, and it comes back to an earlier point, which is that there's 405 00:40:45.570 --> 00:40:52.450 not been national drive to fix this typically as there is within your own institution. 406 00:40:52.450 --> 00:40:56.760 >>JOHN PALFREY: As someone who right now runs a 237 year old school, I often think about 407 00:40:56.760 --> 00:41:01.030 this problem, which is how hard is it to change something that's been doing really well for 408 00:41:01.030 --> 00:41:06.610 a long time, and I would say, in libraries, it's been a success story, but I do think 409 00:41:06.610 --> 00:41:12.240 it's something that needs to be changed, so I am taking your point that 120 years is a 410 00:41:12.240 --> 00:41:15.590 challenge as much as it is a positive in this context. 411 00:41:15.590 --> 00:41:19.850 >>ANDROMEDA YELTON: I think there are three things that immediately spring to mind. One 412 00:41:19.850 --> 00:41:24.900 is that if you propose some kind of service or activity in libraries, there's a lot of 413 00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:30.070 people who will instantly ask what's your plan for making it sustainable for all of 414 00:41:30.070 --> 00:41:38.330 time. Not everything has to be, and you'll never do a meta data mob if you have to have 415 00:41:38.330 --> 00:41:45.830 a plan to do it every week for all of time. Another reason, or something that I think 416 00:41:45.830 --> 00:41:49.450 does a good job of dealing with that mindset is the 4th floor in the Chattanooga Public 417 00:41:49.450 --> 00:41:55.680 Library, which is constructed very intentionally as a space for prototyping new services, and 418 00:41:55.680 --> 00:42:00.470 it's okay for things to happen there once and fail and not move on, but it's also okay 419 00:42:00.470 --> 00:42:04.660 for things to be found useful there and to spread out throughout the system. So, I think 420 00:42:04.660 --> 00:42:13.750 sometimes, you have to be really explicit about creating a space and things can fail. 421 00:42:13.750 --> 00:42:18.900 Another reason is things like meta data mobs and text sprints and stuff are really high 422 00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:21.820 touch. It's not, you're not going to get them if you just wait for a bunch of people to 423 00:42:21.820 --> 00:42:28.540 self organize and need people setting priorities and providing resources. Gross Stuff is an 424 00:42:28.540 --> 00:42:32.700 open source project that does a great job of organizing sprints in atomic ways that 425 00:42:32.700 --> 00:42:39.140 allows people to show up for a weekend and do stuff. But they work at it. The other issue 426 00:42:39.140 --> 00:42:44.500 is workplace time and support. I just came out with a technology report on librarians 427 00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:55.680 who write code at work. You can download it for free, and I asked them, it's at journals.ala.org, 428 00:42:55.680 --> 00:43:02.250 and I asked librarians, did you get support from your workplace in learning how to code 429 00:43:02.250 --> 00:43:07.950 and I asked what form did that support take, and they said, basically, they didn't actively 430 00:43:07.950 --> 00:43:14.830 stop me from doing it. I'm like your bar is set a little low, right? So, if we're talking 431 00:43:14.830 --> 00:43:19.970 about people learning to use and employing tech skills in a way that it's like, go to 432 00:43:19.970 --> 00:43:24.330 your full time job where there is no time to do these things, come home, make dinner, 433 00:43:24.330 --> 00:43:29.600 put your kids to bed, do your chores, it is 9 pm, now you can learn to code! This is made 434 00:43:29.600 --> 00:43:32.190 to fail. >>JOHN PALFREY: After library school, right? 435 00:43:32.190 --> 00:43:36.030 >>ANDROMEDA YELTON: Yeah, after that too. So, I think this is a thing where a place 436 00:43:36.030 --> 00:43:40.070 like (inaudible) has a real advantage because it has a name 437 00:43:40.070 --> 00:43:50.150 and resources to convince people to spend time at work on work things involving change. 438 00:43:50.150 --> 00:44:01.410 >> SPEAKER: Andromeda, You had jumped into some of this, and I wanted to thank you for 439 00:44:01.410 --> 00:44:08.111 your sort of diversion to take us through the Baltimore considerations, but I also wanted 440 00:44:08.111 --> 00:44:12.960 to make sure that you had time to share of the other issues that you started to jump 441 00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:17.940 into, but I think part of this gets at a real challenge around how we change the conception 442 00:44:17.940 --> 00:44:24.680 of what labor is in this environment, and I think the trick, like, funding projects 443 00:44:24.680 --> 00:44:28.650 is one thing, but in another environment, there's sort of a culture shift about what 444 00:44:28.650 --> 00:44:33.740 being a professional means in terms of having that time and that space as part of your job 445 00:44:33.740 --> 00:44:38.930 to say that, you know, I need to be learning, as an example, when one of the developers 446 00:44:38.930 --> 00:44:43.551 working on Zooterra decided he needed to use a different framework, he said I need to take 447 00:44:43.551 --> 00:44:47.970 three weeks to learn it before I'm going to implement it, and everyone said, of course, 448 00:44:47.970 --> 00:44:53.250 that's what you do as a developer. So, I'm curious for the group's thoughts about how 449 00:44:53.250 --> 00:44:59.090 sort of cultural professional sort of labor issues, what needs to happen there and how 450 00:44:59.090 --> 00:45:06.640 do we get there. >>JOHN PALFREY: Margo, you have first crack 451 00:45:06.640 --> 00:45:11.020 at it, if you're interested. >>MARGO PADILLA: I don't have thoughts at 452 00:45:11.020 --> 00:45:14.210 this moment. >>JOHN PALFREY: Fair enough. Passing is absolutely 453 00:45:14.210 --> 00:45:19.570 accepted. >>BETHANY NOWVISKIE: So, it made all the difference 454 00:45:19.570 --> 00:45:25.100 in the world, I think, for the scholars lab as a library and that kind of R and D space 455 00:45:25.100 --> 00:45:34.450 when I really instituted and started to protect 20 percent R and D time on the old Google 456 00:45:34.450 --> 00:45:40.050 model for all staff, and that was all staff across the board, it didn't matter what projects 457 00:45:40.050 --> 00:45:45.050 you were working on, the departmental assistant had the ability to call on this time. Now, 458 00:45:45.050 --> 00:45:53.630 we had to do, there were rules that came with that kind of exploratory freedom. The idea 459 00:45:53.630 --> 00:46:00.770 was for everybody to be able to take a half step back from all of the demands being placed 460 00:46:00.770 --> 00:46:06.710 on them, for working with faculty on projects, for working on internal infrastructure projects, 461 00:46:06.710 --> 00:46:12.680 for all of the data migrations and sort of moving content forward that we had inherited 462 00:46:12.680 --> 00:46:19.930 from decades of digital work at UVA, take a step back to be able to, A, breathe, and 463 00:46:19.930 --> 00:46:28.140 B, look at the commonalities among these requests and maybe invent something that addressed 464 00:46:28.140 --> 00:46:33.950 more than what they were being asked for and solved some problems, so that was the concept. 465 00:46:33.950 --> 00:46:41.920 Some of the ground rules that I sort of set around this included that anybody who was 466 00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:48.070 taking advantage of R and D time needed to be able, at the drop of a hat, to say what 467 00:46:48.070 --> 00:46:54.510 it is that they're working on and make a kind of compelling case for how it met the mission 468 00:46:54.510 --> 00:47:01.180 in some loose way of the scholars lab, of the library, of the University of Virginia, 469 00:47:01.180 --> 00:47:06.430 so you had to connect it and be able to speak compellingly about it, and really, the other 470 00:47:06.430 --> 00:47:13.930 sort of base requirement was that there be some visible outcomes so that you were publishing, 471 00:47:13.930 --> 00:47:21.500 whatever that meant for the project you were working on. Sometimes, your vector was get 472 00:47:21.500 --> 00:47:27.910 hub, sometimes, your vector would be a conference presentation, there were books that came out 473 00:47:27.910 --> 00:47:35.290 of this, there were lots of different kinds of sort of published formal accessible outcomes, 474 00:47:35.290 --> 00:47:44.530 and what we found were the projects that emerged did meet broad needs. So, things like black 475 00:47:44.530 --> 00:47:52.530 light came from scholars lab R and D time, so, you know, take a break and tinker around 476 00:47:52.530 --> 00:47:58.950 with this and think about it, you know, that was the seed of some projects that really 477 00:47:58.950 --> 00:48:04.410 radically changed the way our library operates, that opened up possibilities for collaboration 478 00:48:04.410 --> 00:48:10.780 with other groups, and the neat line project was another one of those that was an R and 479 00:48:10.780 --> 00:48:16.180 D project. So, and that's kind of an answer to the previous question too, is it's just 480 00:48:16.180 --> 00:48:23.100 time, right? It's time, and we kind of get ourselves into the mindset that we need to 481 00:48:23.100 --> 00:48:29.480 fill every possible moment and don't give your staff enough time to sort of breathe 482 00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:34.970 and be creative and really exercise those entrepreneurial skills that we've been talking 483 00:48:34.970 --> 00:48:36.660 about and put things that they've learned to use. 484 00:48:36.660 --> 00:48:41.210 >>JOHN PALFREY: I'm often struck by the fact that there are 125,000 or more libraries, 485 00:48:41.210 --> 00:48:53.420 and if you just thought about that, there would be a huge amount of person power to 486 00:48:53.420 --> 00:48:57.150 put to bear out there. Please. >> SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: Yeah, I want to 487 00:48:57.150 --> 00:49:01.640 say I love the idea you just threw out, John, but I also want to go back to some of the 488 00:49:01.640 --> 00:49:07.180 things that we were talking about on the panel earlier today, on the gaps panel, and specifically 489 00:49:07.180 --> 00:49:12.240 rewinding back to two questions, which continue to come to me as I'm hearing you guys talk. 490 00:49:12.240 --> 00:49:15.920 We've got this kind of identity crisis that I think is going on, it's been going on for 491 00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:22.750 a long time, which makes it more important now, and I think that same identity crisis 492 00:49:22.750 --> 00:49:26.720 that's there in libraries, archives and museums themselves is also there in the I-schools 493 00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:34.000 and the few museum school programs that are there, and until we figure out how we're going 494 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:39.450 to define what our mission is, it becomes really, really hard to teach people to go 495 00:49:39.450 --> 00:49:43.900 in that direction, and so I want to challenge us to walk back a few steps, and I know ALA 496 00:49:43.900 --> 00:49:48.870 is working on some master language right now around what libraries are and what we're supposed 497 00:49:48.870 --> 00:49:53.520 to be doing, you know, one of the problems in our field is that there aren't clear hierarchies 498 00:49:53.520 --> 00:49:58.840 that can tell us what these things are, so we have to figure out way to facilitate voices 499 00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:03.210 from the community and synthesize them up and then act on it, and so I want to start 500 00:50:03.210 --> 00:50:07.860 there, just as a, you know, who are we and how does that impact what answers we can give 501 00:50:07.860 --> 00:50:10.790 to where education needs to go. >>JOHN PALFREY: So we'll definitely come back 502 00:50:10.790 --> 00:50:13.610 to that. Keep going. >> SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: Okay, and then the 503 00:50:13.610 --> 00:50:17.720 second piece is the who is collaborating. So, again, coming back to the second thing 504 00:50:17.720 --> 00:50:21.810 that I introduced on the gaps, where are the bridges and where are the bridges missing, 505 00:50:21.810 --> 00:50:25.720 and right now, one of the critical bridges that I see missing, not just as the Executive 506 00:50:25.720 --> 00:50:43.920 director of Educopia, in a course that I teach, one of the things I've been able to do is, 507 00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:49.640 you know, tell my students, go out and do a digital preservation plan, and I've done 508 00:50:49.640 --> 00:50:52.900 this assignment for about five years, and it's something that I came up with because 509 00:50:52.900 --> 00:50:58.310 I'm a practitioner who then came in. I wasn't trained in library science, that was not my 510 00:50:58.310 --> 00:51:02.190 background. I was practitioner and I came into the classroom and I brought into the 511 00:51:02.190 --> 00:51:07.420 classroom practice and said, all right, you can partner with anybody, you can partner 512 00:51:07.420 --> 00:51:12.830 with a construction company, museum, aquarium, whatever, and my students have done all of 513 00:51:12.830 --> 00:51:21.190 those and more, they've had these incredible experiences, and, so, when I heard you guys 514 00:51:21.190 --> 00:51:28.110 talking about how do you start a meta data mob, I think one of the pieces that's broken 515 00:51:28.110 --> 00:51:34.050 is the piece between the I-schools and the practitioners, often in the same institution. 516 00:51:34.050 --> 00:51:38.561 So just in those academic settings alone, we've got some repair work that I think we 517 00:51:38.561 --> 00:51:56.150 need to do and some bridges that need to be built. Sorry to go on for a long time. 518 00:51:56.150 --> 00:52:02.881 >> SPEAKER: Two fantastic questions/comments. Let's start with Katherine's first question, 519 00:52:02.881 --> 00:52:14.050 which is a fundamental question then we'll come to the who is collaborating question. 520 00:52:14.050 --> 00:52:19.240 So, let's start with the fundamental and then we'll go to the secondary. 521 00:52:19.240 --> 00:52:25.620 >>KIM SCHROEDER: As far as collaboration >> JOHN PALFREY: You're going to the second 522 00:52:25.620 --> 00:52:30.160 one first? That's fine. Go for it. >>KIM SCHROEDER: Well, Katherine, you and 523 00:52:30.160 --> 00:52:35.370 I are of like minds. So, I have always, in every class I've ever taught, introduced a 524 00:52:35.370 --> 00:52:41.370 hands on project. I don't care if it was an introduction class, because I think that it 525 00:52:41.370 --> 00:52:46.110 gives students more confidence in interviewing, it adds to their resume, it helps them with 526 00:52:46.110 --> 00:52:53.500 their people skills and their professionalism, so that's something that we're very adamant 527 00:52:53.500 --> 00:53:02.450 about, and when I took over the archival administration program, that came with it, the practicums 528 00:53:02.450 --> 00:53:08.110 in both digital content management and archives, so we have that piece, but I also manage the 529 00:53:08.110 --> 00:53:13.740 digital media projects lab, which means I'm working with organizations like our contemporary 530 00:53:13.740 --> 00:53:23.090 arts museum, etc. in the area and Detroit Sound Conservancy to provide help to them 531 00:53:23.090 --> 00:53:30.610 and also skills for the students, and they get a lot more out of that than just specific 532 00:53:30.610 --> 00:53:37.980 hard skills, and it gives them something more to talk about and research in the classroom 533 00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:46.830 as well. We've also got the alternate spring break, where they often travel to the national 534 00:53:46.830 --> 00:53:52.400 archives or presidential library, etc., for a week of intensive. So, I'm really adamant 535 00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:59.230 about the experiential training, and my issue, which I mentioned a little bit earlier, is 536 00:53:59.230 --> 00:54:04.850 I'm not sure even where to cut it off. I have some students that will just, whatever I post 537 00:54:04.850 --> 00:54:13.330 I need a volunteer for, they're there, but, you know, how far do you go, but it's really 538 00:54:13.330 --> 00:54:24.090 critical. Those are the students that get the jobs as soon as they graduate. I have 539 00:54:24.090 --> 00:54:32.180 a colleague at the Library of Congress who said there is no other science where you don't 540 00:54:32.180 --> 00:54:39.041 experiment hands on to add to your education, so I think that's absolutely critical. From 541 00:54:39.041 --> 00:54:46.210 a collaborative standpoint, we are working, I am making as many connections as I can for 542 00:54:46.210 --> 00:54:52.360 my students, and we have some that have gone through the NDSR program, which is a fabulous 543 00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:58.850 program, and it's really important, but everything we do is collaborative, and at the NDSA meeting 544 00:54:58.850 --> 00:55:04.720 a few years ago, they were talking about the blurring lines between librarianship, archives 545 00:55:04.720 --> 00:55:12.070 and museum administration, and I think that's okay. I'm sorry, but because of the digital 546 00:55:12.070 --> 00:55:19.640 tools, the way we do our jobs is different, and that's okay, and every team I'm on for 547 00:55:19.640 --> 00:55:27.120 a large scale project has archivists, librarians and technologists and maybe museum curators. 548 00:55:27.120 --> 00:55:31.660 Everything I do is that way, and we do come at things a little differently, but we have 549 00:55:31.660 --> 00:55:36.021 some overlap in our skills that allows us to successfully institute projects, and I 550 00:55:36.021 --> 00:55:40.511 just think that's the way it's going to be, and I think if we're too territorial, that's 551 00:55:40.511 --> 00:55:56.510 going to prevent us from success. >> SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: You are the exception, 552 00:55:56.510 --> 00:56:03.440 and, so, the question of collaboration at Wayne State is a different question from the 553 00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:09.170 question of collaboration when you're not at Wayne State, and I really do, I mean that 554 00:56:09.170 --> 00:56:15.460 both as a compliment and also a challenge to all of us, you know, field wide, how do 555 00:56:15.460 --> 00:56:19.300 we turn that around, how do we build things that are more practicum oriented, like what 556 00:56:19.300 --> 00:56:28.840 Bethany was talking about, like what Clear has done with the fellows program, you know, 557 00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:33.580 there are lots of examples of this now both in an internship and residency kind of space, 558 00:56:33.580 --> 00:56:38.610 but not so much in the classroom space, and so thinking about how to forge those connections 559 00:56:38.610 --> 00:56:46.240 not just in the one off spaces, but in the system. 560 00:56:46.240 --> 00:56:48.900 >>JOHN PALFREY: You're welcome to treat that as a rhetorical question. 561 00:56:48.900 --> 00:56:56.550 >> KIM SCHROEDER: I'm just going to say, earlier, an answer to a question was narcissism. My 562 00:56:56.550 --> 00:57:02.140 facetious answer right now is peer pressure, maybe. I just think these discussions are 563 00:57:02.140 --> 00:57:09.830 the way to go, and I think when you have so many student successes in also doing the hands 564 00:57:09.830 --> 00:57:14.660 on, that that will get through to people, and it also means the students will choose 565 00:57:14.660 --> 00:57:17.400 where they go. >> JOHN PALFREY: Kim, Your point earlier, 566 00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:20.960 that many of your students are not going into the professoriate is an interesting thing, 567 00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:26.520 if you are seeking to have more professors it would be interesting to have some combo, 568 00:57:26.520 --> 00:57:32.220 or maybe there's a root back in some way to help populate the professoriate as well. 569 00:57:32.220 --> 00:57:38.690 >> SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: Todd Carpenter with NYSO. Something that's been bouncing around 570 00:57:38.690 --> 00:57:48.840 on Twitter, in result to the 20 percent, Google's 20 percent thing, it was actually 120 percent, 571 00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:59.460 and this actually leads to my question. How do we as a community foster a culture that 572 00:57:59.460 --> 00:58:05.800 is professional development is part of the 100 percent that you give, not the 125 percent 573 00:58:05.800 --> 00:58:11.780 that you give, that it's part of your job to improve your skills and that the staff 574 00:58:11.780 --> 00:58:18.030 and the institution should benefit from you gaining more skills and it's on you personally 575 00:58:18.030 --> 00:58:25.440 to do that little bit of extra to learn how to code using an Mook at 2:00 o'clock in the 576 00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:28.810 morning after you put the kids to bed. >>BETHANY NOWVISKIE: Yeah, so I'll tell you 577 00:58:28.810 --> 00:58:33.500 what I did. I think we're about to see whether it works or not since I left the institution, 578 00:58:33.500 --> 00:58:40.220 but what I did as a manager was I wrote it into people's job descriptions, you know, 579 00:58:40.220 --> 00:58:47.720 if I got hit by a falling piano or whatever, there would be a way for each individual staff 580 00:58:47.720 --> 00:58:53.450 member to go back and say, no, this is my job, R and D for at least 20 percent of my 581 00:58:53.450 --> 00:59:01.030 time in my 40 hours a week is my job, and then what we did in terms of day to day practice 582 00:59:01.030 --> 00:59:08.830 was I never took it myself, I went around fending off demands to try to make it possible 583 00:59:08.830 --> 00:59:13.140 for people to really take advantage of it, and, you know, people did that to greater 584 00:59:13.140 --> 00:59:19.950 and lesser degrees, but it did help mitigate that risk that it could be, you know, we're 585 00:59:19.950 --> 00:59:24.620 asking people to perform what is beyond humanly possible to do. 586 00:59:24.620 --> 00:59:28.320 >> JOHB PALFREY: It is fundamentally taking something from a peripheral activity to a 587 00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:33.380 core activity. We did something very similar, and I think it's just about making administrative 588 00:59:33.380 --> 00:59:39.070 choices, right? I think we joked about those things. I guess it was Kim saying that those 589 00:59:39.070 --> 00:59:43.480 skills that we no longer have to train for, but, really, we do have to take stuff out. 590 00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:49.530 >> SPEAKER: The important thing is it becomes part of the culture, not just the job. It 591 00:59:49.530 --> 00:59:55.710 becomes part of the mindset, and that became something that attracted people to the group 592 00:59:55.710 --> 01:00:00.810 and something that helped retain them. >>MARGO PADILLA: I think, also, professional 593 01:00:00.810 --> 01:00:05.200 development is something that's not lost on new professionals. Like I said, so many of 594 01:00:05.200 --> 01:00:09.440 the jobs that new professionals take are temporary, and so you're constantly training for your 595 01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:17.681 next job, but if you're talking about professional development being part of the culture, it's 596 01:00:17.681 --> 01:00:21.680 definitely part of the culture of being a new professional. You can't stop. 597 01:00:21.680 --> 01:00:27.060 >>ANDROMED YELTON: It's not like you can't demonstrate concrete value for these skills 598 01:00:27.060 --> 01:00:30.680 if you're in a context where you really need to do that. The people who are writing the 599 01:00:30.680 --> 01:00:38.250 scripts in my report, Becky wrote something that saved one to two weeks of cataloger time 600 01:00:38.250 --> 01:00:44.130 per year, so if you gave her a couple weeks to learn that skill, it paid off within a 601 01:00:44.130 --> 01:00:50.730 couple of years Eric wrote a thing that helped them deliver better reference statistics, 602 01:00:50.730 --> 01:00:55.670 and so they could go to their broader institution and say we know that you did not know this 603 01:00:55.670 --> 01:00:59.910 and did not believe us, but now we can show you that half of our questions in the beginning 604 01:00:59.910 --> 01:01:04.010 of the semester are on tech support, and we need to staff and resource that because we 605 01:01:04.010 --> 01:01:23.910 are where your students learn to use their computers. People do really amazing things 606 01:01:23.910 --> 01:01:27.930 that make life better in concrete ways if they have the skills to do it. 607 01:01:27.930 --> 01:01:38.310 >> SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: Michael Edson again. A couple things. One is I think we can't neglect 608 01:01:38.310 --> 01:01:44.360 the fact that we need to train managers, train management, train leaders on change. This 609 01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:49.540 is going to be the accelerating pace of cultural and technological change is going to be with 610 01:01:49.540 --> 01:01:56.210 us for a really long time, and as a community, I think we suck at it, and other industries 611 01:01:56.210 --> 01:02:05.580 are running circles around us. I've gotten to the point where you can kind of see the 612 01:02:05.580 --> 01:02:08.800 habits and you can see if the vocabulary is there or not, and sometimes, you just have 613 01:02:08.800 --> 01:02:18.580 to fold up your laptop and listen. This is a huge issue. We need to train our top leaders 614 01:02:18.580 --> 01:02:24.520 how to change. The other thing is, I think it's really great to be talking about optimizing 615 01:02:24.520 --> 01:02:28.110 training and professional development for professionals, but I think we need to think 616 01:02:28.110 --> 01:02:36.730 more expansively about who we want as library practitioners in the same way that the web 617 01:02:36.730 --> 01:02:42.330 has opened up new kinds of curation, new people who can participate in the creation of knowledge 618 01:02:42.330 --> 01:02:48.640 and the curation of knowledge, we can have an existing cadre of library professionals 619 01:02:48.640 --> 01:02:55.580 who are better than the ones we have now through training. Don't we also want, you know, 10 620 01:02:55.580 --> 01:03:01.040 million citizen librarians from 200 countries also doing that work. I suspect they are already 621 01:03:01.040 --> 01:03:06.120 doing that work. You can turn them into a movement. You can help them be successful 622 01:03:06.120 --> 01:03:11.160 in their own communities. That's probably a really great outcome for society, and I 623 01:03:11.160 --> 01:03:16.000 don't want this project to lose sight of that. >>JOHN PALFREY: Excellent. I take that to 624 01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:20.120 be a statement and not a question. We have 2 minutes until we will turn it over to the 625 01:03:20.120 --> 01:03:23.421 archivists of the United States. >> BETHANY NOWVISKIE: We left one question 626 01:03:23.421 --> 01:03:28.090 hanging out there, and it's been bugging me. >> JOHN PALFREY: Hang on one second, Bethany. 627 01:03:28.090 --> 01:03:31.511 There's one more comment, it sounds like, from the crew, and then you'll each have a 628 01:03:31.511 --> 01:03:35.760 chance to do a 30 second clean up. >> SPEAKER FROM AUDIENCE: Allen from ALA. 629 01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:40.570 So, going back to the national digital platform, since that implies a very different kind of 630 01:03:40.570 --> 01:03:45.800 orientation, developing, you know, systems or applications that will be useful throughout 631 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:52.560 the country as opposed to focusing on what's useful for your own library, does the panel 632 01:03:52.560 --> 01:03:56.920 have any thoughts in terms of what that means for what kind of education we'll need for 633 01:03:56.920 --> 01:04:03.220 professionals going forward? The other quick comment is, in my work, we also focus on national 634 01:04:03.220 --> 01:04:08.411 policy advocates, so people who could testify at Congress, or as Micah mentioned, people 635 01:04:08.411 --> 01:04:15.250 who might negotiate licenses with publishers at a national scale, and going forward, I 636 01:04:15.250 --> 01:04:21.230 think we're going to need just more people like that to engage with the world beyond 637 01:04:21.230 --> 01:04:27.630 libraries, and, so, any thoughts? Just putting that on the table in terms of education training 638 01:04:27.630 --> 01:04:30.120 we'll need going forward. >> JOHN PALFREY: Thanks Allen. So, in roughly 639 01:04:30.120 --> 01:04:35.220 a tweet or two length, do you guys want to give last comments? We'll go Margo and end 640 01:04:35.220 --> 01:04:38.530 with Andromeda. And Bethany you can hit on anything else you want on the way back. 641 01:04:38.530 --> 01:04:42.390 >> MARGO PADILLA: I think just for the last two comments, one of the most significant 642 01:04:42.390 --> 01:04:48.990 investments we can make is in developing new professionals, higher them permanently and 643 01:04:48.990 --> 01:04:55.820 training them to become managers, and as far as schools go, training them not on a specific 644 01:04:55.820 --> 01:05:01.190 programming language or something that is sort of, will disappear, but on how to think 645 01:05:01.190 --> 01:05:05.930 about these problems, you know, developing a digital preservation plan will never get 646 01:05:05.930 --> 01:05:14.550 old, so thinking, not necessarily always hands on skills, but how to think through problems, 647 01:05:14.550 --> 01:05:17.500 that's a skill that will last throughout one's career. 648 01:05:17.500 --> 01:05:24.200 >>KIM SCHROEDER: I would definitely have to agree. Having a business background, I use 649 01:05:24.200 --> 01:05:29.920 those skills constantly in managing these large projects and assembling volunteers, 650 01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:36.290 and just knowing how to do a budget, project management and needs assessment, all of those 651 01:05:36.290 --> 01:05:40.430 skills are really important, and they're going to continue to be really important for what 652 01:05:40.430 --> 01:05:45.260 we're doing because we are looking at larger scales, more integration, and more globality 653 01:05:45.260 --> 01:05:48.710 in what we do and how we share information. >>BETHANY NOWVISKIE: So, I wanted to address 654 01:05:48.710 --> 01:06:00.740 the identity crisis question. It kind of bugged me then too. The question is how do we define 655 01:06:00.740 --> 01:06:06.110 what our mission is, how do we make it compelling, how do we attract new practitioners. I want 656 01:06:06.110 --> 01:06:12.130 to resist a single answer to that. I think what makes a message about libraries compelling 657 01:06:12.130 --> 01:06:17.480 is that it speaks to peoples' own experiences and to their personal missions, and because 658 01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:25.610 we are many, what we want to do is create frameworks that help us voice those to different 659 01:06:25.610 --> 01:06:28.740 practitioner communities and user groups. >>JOHN PALFREY: Excellent. 660 01:06:28.740 --> 01:06:34.720 >>ANDROMEDA YELTON: I guess my two tweet summary is that supporting professional development 661 01:06:34.720 --> 01:06:44.290 has a multiplier effect on the value of all the platforms that you invest in, and enabling 662 01:06:44.290 --> 01:06:52.070 the people who create and use and teach your platforms to think critically about the intersection 663 01:06:52.070 --> 01:06:55.800 of society and technology makes the technology more inclusive and valuable. 664 01:06:55.800 --> 01:07:00.950 >> JOHN PALFREY: One can tell that Andromeda is a true tweeter. I hope you'll join me in 665 01:07:00.950 --> 01:07:03.170 thanking this panel for a great time. Thank you. 666 01:07:03.170 --> 01:07:03.400 (Applause.)